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9 posts

Wannabe Geek

Topic # 184054 9-Nov-2015 03:22
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I am setting up an Outside IP CCTV network opting via Ethernet rather than WiFi. The cameras are not POE.
I will be looking at 4-6 x 12v Sricam IP Cameras (running between 1A-2A per Cam) & 2 x 12v IR LED Illuminators.

Power will be provided from a 9 port 12v DC power supply distribution box (each port fused for 1A or 2A.

Network will be coming from a managed Netgear Switch.

Cable used will be Outdoor FTP Copper AWG24 Cat5e.

The power being delivered will be 12v up to 2A with no single length exceeding 10m MAX,

The questions are...
>What is the maximum Amps you can send though a CAT5e Cable before causing issues? (off the shelf POE injectors seem to run up to 2A @ 5V and 1A @ 12v)

>Assuming the max amps is high enough, would there be any professional foresight into the concept of manually creating a form of 'POE' using FTP CAT5e cable? (So both ends have a RJ45 connector for data with one end having a Male 5.5x2.1 DC adaptor and the other a Female 5.5x2.1 DC adaptor, Why? you may ask, to remove the need to 'X' amount of POE spiltters installed externally (I want to keep IP66 junction boxes as small as possible))

> If all of that makes sense (Brill), would the static created from the power running through the CAT5e prevent this from being possible? (the CAT5e I have chosen contains an ESD wire)

or, does this all sound far to 'out there' and I'd be better off running out two lines per cam, one power, one data?

For those that need a visual of what I mean with my cable set up, I am making one up a test patch today and will upload a photo once done.

EDIT - I will be using T568B wiring on 802.3af Standard 10/100 mode B with DC on spares. so...

Pin1> W/O stripe - Rx+
Pin2> O Solid - Rx-
Pin3> W/G Stripe - Tx+
Pin4> Bl Solid - DC+
Pin5> W/Bl Stripe - DC+
Pin6> G Solid - Tx-
Pin7> W/Br Stripe - DC-
Pin8> Br Solid - DC-

Thank you in anticipation,

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1423421 9-Nov-2015 07:27
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Hi there, I've tried doing something like this in the past and it wasn't so successful for me.
The voltage drop even over a short 10M run would have required me to ramp up the voltage so ended up giving up.
POE of course is usually using 48V so the drop isn't such a problem.

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  Reply # 1423423 9-Nov-2015 07:27
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Running passive PoE over cat5e cable is perfectly normal. Maximum amperage will depend entirely on AWG of the cable but you will have no issues with your planned setup either using off the shelf passive PoE injectors / splitters, or making your own.

If weather proofing is an issue you could look at better quality cameras that are true 802.3af and have an integrated RJ45 socket to avoid any external junction boxes for joining cable.

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  Reply # 1423428 9-Nov-2015 07:58
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Check if you can order them with POE on them. Voltage drop is a huse issue for the IR illuminators. I found when it was even only sagging as far as 11v, it would make the IR on the cameras I had cycle off and on at certain brightnesses quite badly.


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  Reply # 1423431 9-Nov-2015 08:07
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When you order with POE, they will put a input cable like this on it

which has the regulator in the little plug thing that has the RJ45 on it. If you are lucky you get one without the DC jack on it but I have found it hit and miss which you get.

Anyway, you don't need to power them with a POE switch, just 30+ volts on the spare pair is all they need. Regulates to 12V locally at the camera. They are not stable at 24v input, as I tried using some old wifi AP power injectors on my cameras. Camera comes up ok but as soon as the IR tries turning on it just freaks out.


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  Reply # 1423933 9-Nov-2015 18:43
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You've got it all planned out, and as Steve says, passive PoE is very common so shouldn't be a problem.

I would say though, is this is a super tight budget build? Or have you got a bit of room for movement. Hikvision gear is pretty dam cheap (even cheaper if you buy off aliexpress) but is really good quality for the price. And it would simplify things greatly as the PoE switch is built in to the nvr, as well as the cameras being 'plug and play'.

Just make sure it is well secured.

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Wannabe Geek

  Reply # 1423944 9-Nov-2015 19:13
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I can tell I joined the right forum herd. Thank you all!

Let's tackle this, bitesize....

Budget has to be thought about. This set up, as complex as it sounds, is purely to watch over my rabbits when I'm working away from home (yeap, fluffy bunnies, I know...), so with the exception of any potential network attack I'm not overly fussed if some hacker wants to watch them...only if the open ports create a LAN attack risk?

The brand mentioned... And using an NVR...would this be a more sensible way to address my project? If I said that my current cameras cost £35 ($74) each, and I am after setting up, say 6? The most important aspect is remote access.

The Cameras come with their own IR rings (12v 2A has no issue here) if I use more IR rings I can hard wire these)

So it is agreed that with the cable I'm choosing to use 12v 2A will be fine?
I have seen a lot of mention regarding earthing external Cat5 cables... ALL cables will be under cover in walk-in runs (and most likely in trunking). Is earthing required/recommended for my set up?

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  Reply # 1423972 9-Nov-2015 19:59
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The NVR gives you one thing you have to worry about securing. If you portfoward to all the cameras individually, then you have to make sure you have locked them down as much as possible, keep all the user accounts on them the same, etc.

It also lets you watch them locally on a TV plugged into the NVR, and if you add a HDD to it, record it as well.

Most of the cheap gear aimed at non-pros will have a form of cloud service that will break thru NAT, and mean that you are not exposing ports to the world at all times to play with which is the other way you can go. It's often called p2p or similar on the listings. Im not sure if they go thru a server for everything or just the control of it, but they seem to work fine with no port forwards configured for me to watch on my phone.


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