Wireless Access Points - some advice please

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Lizard1977

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#318937 7-Mar-2025 07:57

I'm moving house next week, and before the chaos of packing and moving gets too much I wanted to come up with a plan for a good wifi setup.

I'm moving to a two-storey house, built in the early 1990s with a second storey added about 10 years later. It's a rental, so I'm assuming I'll be limited in what I can do in terms of running cables - but I won't really know until I take possession next Thursday and can get a closer look at things.

I'm bringing my 2Degrees-supplied FritzBox 7360 router. From memory the wifi on these devices is okay, but would definitely need something to boost the signal around the house. The floor area is 285m2 over the two storeys, so I can see wifi signal dropping off substantially at the far end of the house.

At the place I lived in before my current house, I bought a Unifi AP which was fantastic. But it was a long time ago that I set it up and I can't for the life of me remember what I did. So I'm hoping the GZ community can provide me with some good advice or suggestions.

One idea I was toying with (don't know if it's possible though) was to use an old router (Spark) I have lying around. Is it possible to connect this via ethernet and use it as a wireless AP? Or is that nonsense I made up in my head?

My partner (who is moving in with me) has a wireless repeater in her place that she suggested we could use - but my understanding is those devices end up halving the bandwidth and slowing everything down. We'll be getting a 300/100mbps connection, and there will be six of us in the house (2 adults, 2 teens, 2 pre-teens) with a lot of devices connected, so I can foresee bandwidth becoming an issue. Am I right in thinking the wireless repeaters aren't worth it?

Any suggestions for what I should be exploring now, before moving day arrives?

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#3350864 7-Mar-2025 08:48

Good questions!

1) Stay away from the wireless repeaters (a.k.a. extenders) - send these to e-waste ASAP.

2) You can use an old router as an AP. I've done this before. Whether this is advisable or not, depends on the intersection of the following factors: age of the router, how tolerant your users are, your budget, and your own appetite for fiddling with configuration and troubleshooting.

Pros: Free.

Cons: Roaming between APs won't be seamless. Can be a pain in the arse to configure (depending on router model) and troubleshoot. Older routers can have flaky wifi or only support old protocols which don't deal well with lots of busy devices.

3) If you can afford to spend a little coin, the best bang for buck I recommend is to pick up a couple (two should be sufficient) GWN7660 APs or similar (will require a PoE source, so maybe a cheap TP-Link switch or similar too). Disable the wifi on your router, set some sensible minimum RSSIs on the APs, and you'll have enough wifi for any number of devices.

Disclaimer: no experience with the Fritzbox 7360 or any devices from this brand at all.

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CokemonZ

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#3350867 7-Mar-2025 08:54

I have had good experiences with an older generation of this type of product.

It uses the powerlines in your wall like an ethernet cable, and gives you both wifi and ethernet at each end. This one will replace your fritzbox too.

Awesome at rentals as you can plug them in wherever you like, and move them around.

Buy the TP-Link Deco PX50 (AX3000) + G.hn 1500 Hybrid WiFi 6 Whole Home Mesh... ( Deco PX50(3-pack) ) online - PBTech.co.nz

You could always go for a mesh system, I like wires :)

raytaylor

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#3350869 7-Mar-2025 08:59

I like the look of that product
A wifi system built on powerline backhaul - much better than all other wifi mesh systems.

Its a pain because wifi mesh is typically bad, but its a buzz word so they have to use it - but the powerline backhaul makes it a very different product and much better than plain wifi mesh.

Another option is the TL-WPA4220Kit
I have hundreds of these installed in customer homes and they work well

Ray Taylor

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mrgsm021

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#3350872 7-Mar-2025 09:10

Nothing beats Ethernet backhaul on mesh systems but as you pointed out since it's a rental, running cables around the place might be limited unless it already has good internal cabling in place that you can make use of.

kiwifidget

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#3350874 7-Mar-2025 09:19

Powerline and wifi access points - whoever thought to combine those deserves a gold star and a chocolate fish!

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nztim

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#3350881 7-Mar-2025 09:43

Requires a lot of knowledge but I have a friend in rented three story house with 3x Mikrotik Audiences units, one on the middle floor where the ONT is configured as a router/ap and then one on the third and ground floor configured as Client Bridge/AP

The cool thing about these is there are 2 5ghz radios in them so you can have a dedicated backhaul to connect the three units together and a second 5ghz Radio for clients

This does require skill to get going however, also they are AC only and I can't see a similar product with AX

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Lizard1977

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#3350904 7-Mar-2025 10:25

Thanks for all those recommendations.

raytaylor:

I like the look of that product
A wifi system built on powerline backhaul - much better than all other wifi mesh systems.

Its a pain because wifi mesh is typically bad, but its a buzz word so they have to use it - but the powerline backhaul makes it a very different product and much better than plain wifi mesh.

Another option is the TL-WPA4220Kit
I have hundreds of these installed in customer homes and they work well

I tried a Powerline product about a decade ago, but was underwhelmed by its performance. I suspect that was due to sub-optimal wiring in the ~100 year old house. Possibly the technology has improved, and hopefully the wiring in the ~35 year old house I'm moving into is better. But can I just ask what is the advantage of the kit that Ray has recommended above, with an access point built into the Powerline device? Is it just one less device to have to manage? Could a similar outcome be achieved by using a standard Powerline product and using that connect a regular wireless AP in place of dedicated ethernet?

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richms

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#3350982 7-Mar-2025 12:20

Lizard1977:

I tried a Powerline product about a decade ago, but was underwhelmed by its performance. I suspect that was due to sub-optimal wiring in the ~100 year old house. Possibly the technology has improved, and hopefully the wiring in the ~35 year old house I'm moving into is better. But can I just ask what is the advantage of the kit that Ray has recommended above, with an access point built into the Powerline device? Is it just one less device to have to manage? Could a similar outcome be achieved by using a standard Powerline product and using that connect a regular wireless AP in place of dedicated ethernet?

New ones are still crap, they are just faster when they are actually are passing data but still have lag spikes making them no good for gaming, actual streaming, calls etc. Fine for watching netflix and heavily buffered things like youtube which is why so many people say they work great.

Richard rich.ms

raytaylor

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#3351093 7-Mar-2025 16:34

nztim:

The cool thing about these is there are 2 5ghz radios in them so you can have a dedicated backhaul to connect the three units together and a second 5ghz Radio for clients

That actually sounds quite cool because you could enable mikrotiks TDMA scheduling on the backhaul radio for improved reliability.

Ray Taylor

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raytaylor

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#3351096 7-Mar-2025 16:49

Powerline works well in most houses - as I say i have about 450 of them installed around hawkes bay for wifi extensions and connections out to detached garages or sleepouts.

You can use the tplink software on a laptop plugged into a wired only unit, or the web interface on a wifi unit to see what the link speed is across the powerline interface.
If its less than 50mbits then its not going to be super reliable as its pretty close to the slowest modulation which means it doesnt take much interference for it to drop out.
But if they are linking faster than 50mbits then they work quite well.

The powerline interface i am pretty sure is still CSMA so they limit you to 8 units but if you only have two units then its a pretty solid 2-3ms. Not as good as a hardwired connection but generally pretty stable.

Yes you can use your own router or access point on the end of them. You dont need to use the models with built in wifi.
We have several where the rest of the customer site uses unifi and so to make it easy for management, the distant unifi AP in another building is just backhauled over a powerline link and that way everything is visible in the unifi management portal.
The powerline units just create a transparent bridge between two points.

PB Tech actually have a pair of of netcomm wired units for $59 or $39 with their promo code at the moment.
I havent had much experience with the netcomm units but they also have some software you can download to check the link speed.

The TL-PA9020P KIT is really impressive for wired-only units - we set some up this morning for a customer and were getting 400mbits out to a detached sleepout. They are expensive though. Unfortunately the customer had already purchased them from a high street store and couldnt be bothered taking them back so we just sold him one of our access points to plug into them as it was cheaper than also buying a powerline kit with wifi built in.

Ray Taylor

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nztim

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#3351960 10-Mar-2025 09:15

raytaylor:

nztim:

The cool thing about these is there are 2 5ghz radios in them so you can have a dedicated backhaul to connect the three units together and a second 5ghz Radio for clients

That actually sounds quite cool because you could enable mikrotiks TDMA scheduling on the backhaul radio for improved reliability.

Shame there is no AX version of the Audience

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raytaylor

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#3352351 10-Mar-2025 20:29

Its just AC but whats interesting is there are not only two different 5ghz radios, but they are also two different models of chip.
I assume an AX version is coming later in the year.

Of the current one, one is a 2 chain AC radio capable of 867mbps and the other is a 4 chain capable of 1733mbits

So i assume you would use the dual chain for local client devices, and then the quad chain which I assume has some beamforming capabilities to backhaul to other audience units and to get some more speed over the distance or squeeze some more speed out of the signal when its going through a couple of walls walls.

Ray Taylor

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Lizard1977

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#3353724 13-Mar-2025 17:53

I got the keys to the house today, and was able to properly work out the placement of things like the ONT. It's in a bedroom near the front of the house, and there's no practical way to run ethernet from that bedroom to the more central location of the main lounge without drilling (out of the question - it's a rental). So it seems like powerline is probably going to be the best method.

The main devices which will need a wired connection - as far as practical - will be my NAS, the TV, and my PC. I'm planning to put my PC in the office upstairs. I also have an Xbox, a Playstation, and potentially 1-3 other TVs which could be wired. But they will be spread over the ground floor of the house.

I'm trying to map out the network to see what kind of powerline device would work best. A two-pack powerline doesn't seem like it will be enough. I could connect the router to the ONT in the front bedroom and then connect the router to the powerline to send the connection down to the lounge. Could I then connect the other end of the powerline into my network switch and use that to connect up things like the NAS, my TV, and the Xbox - or would that place too much pressure on the powerline connection? My fibre connection will be 300/100mbps but we aren't likely to be doing anything more taxing than streaming netflix etc. My partner's son plays Fortnite, so lag might be an issue for him on his Playstation if it was all running off a single powerline connection.

And then there's the question of the devices upstairs, and wifi more generally. If I used the powerline setup downstairs and connected it to my network switch in the lounge, I'm guessing I could connect a wireless AP to the network switch to broadcast wifi around the house. But I have no idea if that would extend to the second floor. And in this scenario none of the devices upstairs (like my PC) will be wired. Can a third powerline device be added to the standard two? And if so, is that a good idea?

I had a look at the TP-Link PX50 device that was suggested here. It seems like this might offer a pretty good solution. It has three nodes - I assume the first node connects to the ONT and then it uses powerline to provide a fast data connection to the other nodes. If I put the second node in my lounge, could I connect my network switch and use that to connect up all the devices in my lounge (namely, TV, NAS, Xbox)? And then the third node could go upstairs in the office, connect up my PC and provide good wifi signal for the top floor? Or have I completely misunderstood things?

raytaylor

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#3353887 14-Mar-2025 08:39

Lizard1977:

I had a look at the TP-Link PX50 device that was suggested here.

On reading your post, I personally would have gone and got two TL-WPA4220KIT 's
And just programmed them to be on the same powerline network which gives you four units
- 1 Hardwired unit for connecting to router at ONT
- 2 Hardwired unit for feeding a device or switch (may be surplus, spare)
- 3 Wifi device for wifi and 2x hardwired ports for device or switch
- 4 Wifi device for wifi and 2x hardwired ports for device or switch

However I havent personally tried the PX50, though it looks like it would also be a very good choice. They use the g.hn protocol so will be capable of faster speeds.

Ray Taylor

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nztim

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#3353891 14-Mar-2025 09:25

Lizard1977:

I got the keys to the house today, and was able to properly work out the placement of things like the ONT. It's in a bedroom near the front of the house, and there's no practical way to run ethernet from that bedroom to the more central location of the main lounge without drilling (out of the question - it's a rental)

What moron decided that was the best location for an ONT

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