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Mr Snotty
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# 223277 21-Sep-2017 23:08
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The RSM here in NZ allows for an operating frequency of 915-928 MHz for short range devices (Link). US / Canada Z-Wave kit operates at 908.42 MHz which is outside of the fair use spectrum block.

 

I had a friend who got a visit from the RSM about operating a Smartthings Hub and US Z-Wave kit he imported off Amazon due to the fact it can (and does - I'm told) interfere with several services - the RSM did manage to track him down successfully and give him a warning and told him to cease use of the equipment.

 

If you're either using imported Z-Wave kit, or are thinking of it then I suggest you switch this off and / or reconsider your options. Unless if this kit works on NZ's Z-Wave frequency of 921.4 MHz (or within the "fair use" block) then you're in breach of RSM.

 

Just thought I'd give this warning. While the Smartthings hub sounds awesome it isn't worth a warning / fine. Even though you can operate the Smartthings hub with Z-Wave turned off as it still contains a transmitter that is not operating in the licensed frequencies it is still a breach - this is a software switch, it may still transmit.

 

Edit: Changed since Australia has a SmartThings hub you can now use: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=73&topicid=250986





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  # 1870592 22-Sep-2017 07:23
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Wonder if Peter Reader needs an update to link to this if zwave is mentioned?





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  # 1870832 22-Sep-2017 10:21
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That is very interesting to hear that the RSM actually tracked someone down and knocked on their door. I always assumed it was a bit of a hollow threat. It must mean there was noticeable interference with something they monitor. 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1870834 22-Sep-2017 10:24
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SumnerBoy:

 

That is very interesting to hear that the RSM actually tracked someone down and knocked on their door. I always assumed it was a bit of a hollow threat. It must mean there was noticeable interference with something they monitor. 

 

 

 

 

Its not a Hollow threat, they have some pretty awesome gear that can pinpoint frequencies, Their broadband receivers are great


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  # 1870837 22-Sep-2017 10:25
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SumnerBoy:

 

That is very interesting to hear that the RSM actually tracked someone down and knocked on their door. I always assumed it was a bit of a hollow threat. It must mean there was noticeable interference with something they monitor. 

 

 

I'm aware of RSM and Vodafone tracking down users of US DECT phones that interfere with the 3G 2100 uplink.

 

 


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  # 1870838 22-Sep-2017 10:25
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Yep, I had no idea. Good to know and good to share on here - thanks Mr Murphy!


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  # 1871051 22-Sep-2017 15:11
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Off topic, but interesting to see that Samsung are still working on Smart Things.

 

I was getting the impression that they weren't taking that much interest in the platform since they purchased it.

 

They're certainly missing an opportunity to develop a killer ecosystem with full integration across their range of Smart TVs, Galaxy phones and domestic appliances etc.

 

Maybe we'll see something at CES but you get the feeling that IoT in the home is joining 3DTV and smart watches as last year's next big thing.    


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  # 1871065 22-Sep-2017 15:27
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evilengineer:

Off topic, but interesting to see that Samsung are still working on Smart Things.


I was getting the impression that they weren't taking that much interest in the platform since they purchased it.


They're certainly missing an opportunity to develop a killer ecosystem with full integration across their range of Smart TVs, Galaxy phones and domestic appliances etc.


Maybe we'll see something at CES but you get the feeling that IoT in the home is joining 3DTV and smart watches as last year's next big thing.    



I'm hoping Samsung do go international with SmartThings. They may do for no other reason than Apple's release of HomeKit.

ZigBee is different from Z-wave in that it uses standard 2.4GHz wifi frequencies isn't it? The reason I ask is in just about to order some Philips Hue compatible ZigBee her from Amazon. The thread topic is why I haven't ordered any Z-wave gear from eBay/Amazon.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

 
 
 
 


neb

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  # 1871775 24-Sep-2017 06:11
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Is there any reason why NZ always seems to allocate bizarro frequecies to ad hoc radio networks that almost no-one else on earth uses? As the linked note says, it's only very recently that you've been able to (legally) operate on 915 MHz (although in practice it didn't make any difference, the low-power 915MHz stuff couldn't get near the higher-power line-of-sight video that the frequency was used for), and there are still other frequency ranges where NZ seems to be different from everyone else on earth (shades of reverse pulse dialling). Why do we always end up with weird allocations that either end up interfering if you use any normal gear on them or have to be retroactively patched up to legalise all the gear that everyone's using anyway?

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  # 1871804 24-Sep-2017 08:27
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neb: Is there any reason why NZ always seems to allocate bizarro frequecies to ad hoc radio networks that almost no-one else on earth uses? As the linked note says, it's only very recently that you've been able to (legally) operate on 915 MHz (although in practice it didn't make any difference, the low-power 915MHz stuff couldn't get near the higher-power line-of-sight video that the frequency was used for), and there are still other frequency ranges where NZ seems to be different from everyone else on earth (shades of reverse pulse dialling). Why do we always end up with weird allocations that either end up interfering if you use any normal gear on them or have to be retroactively patched up to legalise all the gear that everyone's using anyway?

 

 

 

great question, i would also like the answer to that.





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  # 1871823 24-Sep-2017 09:26
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neb: Is there any reason why NZ always seems to allocate bizarro frequecies to ad hoc radio networks that almost no-one else on earth uses? As the linked note says, it's only very recently that you've been able to (legally) operate on 915 MHz (although in practice it didn't make any difference, the low-power 915MHz stuff couldn't get near the higher-power line-of-sight video that the frequency was used for), and there are still other frequency ranges where NZ seems to be different from everyone else on earth (shades of reverse pulse dialling). Why do we always end up with weird allocations that either end up interfering if you use any normal gear on them or have to be retroactively patched up to legalise all the gear that everyone's using anyway?

 

This might get wordy so be warned. New Zealand is part of the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) and sits in region 3 (Asia Pacific). We are tiny when it comes to market size and so making New Zealand a technology taker. When your market is not even half of New York city, then you know how insignificant a market we are. Balancing the requirements of incumbents in the radio spectrum verses new uses is a balancing act and at times it is not fast paced compared to some telecommunications decisions. Typically refarming takes five years unless certain caveats are met (I can spend an hour just talking about those alone) so it is not done lightly. In regards to the 915 - 928 MHz Short Range Device allocation that this thread started off with, the USA (in ITU region 2) has opened up the whole band for ISM (industrial, scientific and medical use), which typically becomes a free for all, hence the high powered video links that people are using. Over in ITU region 1 (Europe, the Middle East and Africa), they kicked off 2G from about 890 - 915 MHz. New Zealand decided to follow suit, hence the 2 Degrees and Vodafone usage in this band. This allowed 2G (GSM) to launch in New Zealand and until Vodafone switches it off (unlikely for at least 10 years with their M2M contracts), 2G will still be used in the 890 - 915 MHz band. Here in New Zealand, we opened up 915 - 928 for ISM usage but the lower part of the band has some limitations as Vodafone have a management right next door (treated like a property right) so you can't build too near the fence so to speak. New Zealand attempts to strike a balance when it comes to spectrum allocations and alignment with our region 3 neighbours (including Australia) is typically what we aim for. Sometimes we even lead the world with spectrum allocations, band 28 for LTE (the 700 MHz band) was initiated out of New Zealand and is gaining traction across the globe, not just in ITU region 3.  

 

TL:DR the USA is big enough to spectrum usage decisions on its own without anyone else as its market is big enough to sustain mass manufacture and people want to import equipment from the USA.

 

 


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  # 1871840 24-Sep-2017 09:34
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knoydart:

We are tiny when it comes to market size and so making New Zealand a technology taker. When your market is not even half of New York city, then you know how insignificant a market we are.

 

 

And that's why some of the choices just seem bizarre. For example for SRD's we were supposed to use 868Mhz instead of 915Mhz... have you ever tried tracking down stuff that runs on 868Mhz rather than 915? Even if you can find something that's set for 868, you then run into the problem that everything it talks to expects 915, not 868. It's like we're deliberately trying to make it hard/expensive to operate SRDs.

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  # 1871869 24-Sep-2017 10:36
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neb: Is there any reason why NZ always seems to allocate bizarro frequecies to ad hoc radio networks that almost no-one else on earth uses?

 

Knoydart has already given a pretty good answer but I'll add my 5c.

 

Personally I'd reword your question "why does the US seem to use frequencies that nobody else uses", because that's something they've done for a long time and something that is getting worse. Roaming to the US with a non US phone is becoming increasingly difficult with new LTE bands such as their 600MHz that will not ever be used anywhere else in the world. Their DECT phones are incompatible with anywhere else in the world, and some of their other ISM bands don't match up either.

 

 


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  # 1871878 24-Sep-2017 10:52
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^^^ Do you think that's a case of "too bad if the rest of the world don't like our standards."?


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  # 1871910 24-Sep-2017 12:14
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Thanks for the mention murfy!

 

 

 

interesting to hear this was not only enough for them to look into, but they actioned a hunt.





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  # 1872428 25-Sep-2017 12:49
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So what was wrong with NZ adopting the same 868Mhz band that the EU uses for z-wave?


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