[Snap] Does VDSL use the same line as ADSL?

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › [Snap] Does VDSL use the same line as ADSL?

AKT

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#111876 18-Nov-2012 11:46

We are moving house again so are re-visiting the ISP options - Snap seem the only ones to offer VDSL but there is a wiring charge of $400 - I thought they used the same lines, so why so much? VF would be free (but not VDSL).

Also - if I sign up for 24 months, how much do they charge for moving house as we’ll be moving again in 12 months?

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A

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#719010 18-Nov-2012 12:06

Wiring fees apply because a master filter is mandatory for VDSL2 unless you're wiring your modem direct into the demarc with all other wiring eliminated.

As for moving house you'd really need to ask Snap! what they charge, but they're going to be subjected to exactly the same fees from Chorus depending on your wiring requirements if you move.

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chevrolux

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#719022 18-Nov-2012 12:46

Loads of people offer VDSL. And that wiring charge will be about the same no matter who you go with as it is done via Chorus.
Of course you don't have to have Chorus doing the wiring. Going through a private cabling company will give the same result for a much lower price.

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#719023 18-Nov-2012 12:52

The cheapest approach is to get a naked VDSL2 connection only with no wiring and then pay somebody else to come and sort all your wiring out. The $399 is the maximum price for new naked VDSL2 connection w/o POTS. It's cheaper w/ POTS.

mattgreen

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#719038 18-Nov-2012 14:22

AFAIK it's the same ~$40 master splitter for VDSL as ADSL. I guess Chorus expect to have to do other wiring work at the same time to get your connecting working nicely - i.e. disconnect/replace jacks etc. All that adds up to time.. Time spent at your house = $$.

I personally only have two jacks in the house that are star wired with Cat5e so I'm skipping the Chorus install. If I have any issues I'll disconnect the jack in the master bedroom so the modem has a direct line to the ETP. In the worst case I'll drop $40 and install a splitter myself.

The Snap team are clued up so just give them a call. They'll give you all the answers re contracts, splitters, etc and will probably pre-qual your line as well.

EDIT: (clarification.. it's now the same splitter as in; VDSL splitter works for ADSL but not the other way around)

blair003

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#719074 18-Nov-2012 15:59

mattgreen: I guess Chorus expect to have to do other wiring work at the same time to get your connecting working nicely - i.e. disconnect/replace jacks etc. All that adds up to time.. Time spent at your house = $$.

I think they always do it basically the same - take a wire output from the splitter and run a cable from there to a single DSL jackpoint. But depending on the house, that could be really easy or quite hard. I guess the pricing allows for it to be hard.

AKT

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#719083 18-Nov-2012 16:28

blair003:
mattgreen: I guess Chorus expect to have to do other wiring work at the same time to get your connecting working nicely - i.e. disconnect/replace jacks etc. All that adds up to time.. Time spent at your house = $$.

I think they always do it basically the same - take a wire output from the splitter and run a cable from there to a single DSL jackpoint. But depending on the house, that could be really easy or quite hard. I guess the pricing allows for it to be hard.

I don’t have or need a phone line so do I even need a splitter - I don’t for ADSL. And therefore hence my first question - what is the $400 for? ADSL uses phone lines which are already there, IF VSDL is similar then I won’t need much from them. I’ll try and give snap a call during the week to clarify.

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chevrolux

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#719093 18-Nov-2012 17:28

When you sign up on the Snap site you don't need to select one of the installation types. That is only for new lines where wiring might be required.

sbiddle

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#719094 18-Nov-2012 17:29

AKT:
blair003:
mattgreen: I guess Chorus expect to have to do other wiring work at the same time to get your connecting working nicely - i.e. disconnect/replace jacks etc. All that adds up to time.. Time spent at your house = $$.

I think they always do it basically the same - take a wire output from the splitter and run a cable from there to a single DSL jackpoint. But depending on the house, that could be really easy or quite hard. I guess the pricing allows for it to be hard.

I don’t have or need a phone line so do I even need a splitter - I don’t for ADSL. And therefore hence my first question - what is the $400 for? ADSL uses phone lines which are already there, IF VSDL is similar then I won’t need much from them. I’ll try and give snap a call during the week to clarify.

A

It doesn't matter whether you have a DSL connection with POTS on or off, you still need a master filter or to have the modem connected to a jackpoint connected directly to the demarc. With ADSL2+ the reflections from multiple jackpoints cause a degredation of service that has plenty of variables. With VDSL2 that is increased considerably due to the higher frequency range used. Plug in filters aren't required with a naked connection because there is no voice to split out, however only a master filter can eliminate the issues that are created by your internal wiring.

The $399 is the maximum price that Chorus charge for a full naked POTS off install. The cost for POTS on is cheaper. Don't ask why - it just is.

As I said above if you're unhappy with the price request a connection only and get somebody to come in and do your wiring for you. You should find plenty of people who will do this for under the Chorus $199 pricepoint.

AKT

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#719119 18-Nov-2012 19:10

chevrolux: When you sign up on the Snap site you don't need to select one of the installation types. That is only for new lines where wiring might be required.

I see that now - it looked like you had to select one of the three.

AKT

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#719121 18-Nov-2012 19:20

sbiddle:

It doesn't matter whether you have a DSL connection with POTS on or off, you still need a master filter or to have the modem connected to a jackpoint connected directly to the demarc. With ADSL2+ the reflections from multiple jackpoints cause a degredation of service that has plenty of variables. With VDSL2 that is increased considerably due to the higher frequency range used. Plug in filters aren't required with a naked connection because there is no voice to split out, however only a master filter can eliminate the issues that are created by your internal wiring.

The $399 is the maximum price that Chorus charge for a full naked POTS off install. The cost for POTS on is cheaper. Don't ask why - it just is.

As I said above if you're unhappy with the price request a connection only and get somebody to come in and do your wiring for you. You should find plenty of people who will do this for under the Chorus $199 pricepoint.

I didn’t think you could request connection only (see previous post) which is what I didn’t really understand about the pricing.

Re filters, my understanding was that the filtered section is for POTS and unfiltered is DSL but you’re saying that the DSL side is also filtered to help reduce degradation. I’ve not used a filter since being on Naked DSL and never had an issue, but it’s always been ADSL. If the wiring side is purely installing a filter (I can’t see it being anything else) then I am perfectly capable of doing that and think $400 is a lot for doing so, which is why I thought there must be more too it.

from what people have said, it sounds like the CS at Snap are pretty good so will give them a call during the week to clarify.

Thanks
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#719128 18-Nov-2012 19:28

A master filter doesn't so much "filter" the DSL signal, but isolates the internal wiring from the DSL. Multiple jackpoints act as bridge taps, effectively reducing DSL performance.

The $399 includes the connection charge which as I mentioned above is more expensive for POTS off than POTS on.

fellaintga

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#719255 19-Nov-2012 07:34

I never took the splitter install for VDSL. But I do have a jackpoint plugged directly into the outside of the house. Still I think if you know which is the first jackpoint in the house just use that. But I know for a fact you don't need the $400 install charge just say you want the connection only.

sbiddle

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#719256 19-Nov-2012 07:41

fellaintga: I never took the splitter install for VDSL. But I do have a jackpoint plugged directly into the outside of the house. Still I think if you know which is the first jackpoint in the house just use that. But I know for a fact you don't need the $400 install charge just say you want the connection only.

It's not just a matter of using the first jackpoint, it's ensuring it's the only jackpoint. Bridge taps till VDSL2.

mattgreen

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#719759 19-Nov-2012 21:18

Just a quick update as I was upgraded to VDSL2 today.

I was getting 16-17Mbps down 1Mbps up with naked ADSL2+ with a 6db attenuation. That has gone up to 10db on VDSL.

I have no master splitter, two phone jacks star wired with cat5e, only DSL modem plugged into one jack and I'm about 600m from my cabinet.

I'm sync'd at 44.8Mbps down and 10Mbps up and think I'm currently on DLM1 as it's reporting 1ms latency. Getting 1 CRC error per minute so fingers crossed I stay on DLM1.

I might be able to squeeze out a little more speed if I disconnect the other jack but right now I'm not going to touch anything!

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#720133 20-Nov-2012 15:12

mattgreen: Just a quick update as I was upgraded to VDSL2 today.

I was getting 16-17Mbps down 1Mbps up with naked ADSL2+ with a 6db attenuation. That has gone up to 10db on VDSL.

I have no master splitter, two phone jacks star wired with cat5e, only DSL modem plugged into one jack and I'm about 600m from my cabinet.

I'm sync'd at 44.8Mbps down and 10Mbps up and think I'm currently on DLM1 as it's reporting 1ms latency. Getting 1 CRC error per minute so fingers crossed I stay on DLM1.

I might be able to squeeze out a little more speed if I disconnect the other jack but right now I'm not going to touch anything!

That’s pretty good speed-wise. I called Snap! today to clarify a few things, they were very helpful.

They told me that they estimated my speed would be ~13-14Mbps down and 1.2Mbps up on ADSL2 and ~17-18Mbps down and 7Mbps up with a 8db attenuation.

Moving house would be FoC as long as I didn’t have a phone.

I have a feeling I may stick with ADSL until fibre is available as there’s not a lot more speed for $30/month

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