Orcon UBS and cabinetization Question

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old3eyes

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#36564 28-Jun-2009 17:36

I have just gone back to UBS from LLU. In Feb 2010 a cabinet is due to go in about 600 meters from where I live. When this happens will Orcon's UBS be fed from there or still from the current local exchange which is about 4Km away??

TIA.

Regards,

Old3eyes

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#228979 28-Jun-2009 17:48

UBS customers will be serviced from the cabinet by Telecom Wholesale. That is to say that Telecom Retail is a Telecom Wholesale customer, and Telecom Retail like Orcon, Vodafone, WXC, are to be treated equally, and as such Telecom Wholesale should not differentiate in this regard.

nzbnw

old3eyes

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#229104 29-Jun-2009 09:20

Thanx.. :-)

Regards,

Old3eyes

alliao

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#234265 12-Jul-2009 02:53

wonder what will happen to all the Orcon+ customers... after cabinesation there's no word, and speed's gone way down to 2Mbps..

Ragnor

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#234266 12-Jul-2009 04:06

My understanding is that LLU connections are passed through the cabinet and terminate at the exchange not on the equipment in the cabinets like the UBS connections. There have been a lot of problems and reports of degraded performance when this happens (the stronger signals from the cabinet interfering with the weaker signals from the exchange).

I know of several people on Orcon+ who had to change back to non + when their area got cabinet'd due to performance problems.

alliao

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#234376 12-Jul-2009 16:51

by passed through, do you mean the signal has to travel from the bigger exchange nodes, rather than smaller (closer) cabinets?

So it's no wonder that signal's degraded, since LLU connections are over a longer distance hence greater attenuation...

It sounds to me if telecom's got fed up by people using their equipment (via LLU regulations), and are now beating the competition by installing more smaller cabinets, which LLU are not entitled to share under previous regulation. (what was the basis of the argument which brought on LLU?)

nzbnw

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#234385 12-Jul-2009 17:35

alliao:

It sounds to me if telecom's got fed up by people using their equipment (via LLU regulations), and are now beating the competition by installing more smaller cabinets, which LLU are not entitled to share under previous regulation. (what was the basis of the argument which brought on LLU?)

I don't think so; remember that Telecom has been separated into 3 business units, Retail, Wholesale and Networks (Chorus). AFAIK Chorus is paid the same line rental irrespective if the customer is LLU or Wholesale, all the same to them.

It is Chorus (Networks) that is rolling out the cabinets, and Telecom Wholesale (who is separate from Chorus and must be treated like every other customer of Chorus) that is installing the ISAM's in the cabinets. Nothing is stopping Vodafone or Orcon installing their own gear in these cabinets except they claim they can’t make the business case stack up. Should NZ broadband suffer because these two Telco’s can’t make the dollars work for them?

Cabinetisation is not a bad thing, it will greatly improve Broadband speeds for the fast majority of subscribers no matter that Orcon and Vodafone might try and spin.

nzbnw

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#234398 12-Jul-2009 18:52

alliao: by passed through, do you mean the signal has to travel from the bigger exchange nodes, rather than smaller (closer) cabinets?

Theoretically it's should be the same as if the cabinet didn't exist. In practice it's worse because stronger signals from the cabinet cause interference in the trunk (not sure if that's the correct term). I don't think there is an easy solution. The roll out of cabinets was planned well before competiting ISP's were allowed to install their equipment in exchanges, so you can't put all the blame on Telecom and none on Orcon, Vodafone etc.

The commerce commision sets the prices that Telecom can charge other ISP's for hosting their equipment in Telecom exchanges (local loop unbundling) and cabinets (sub loop unbundling).

The ISP's say the recently set prices for hosting gear in cabinets and backhaul to the exchange is too high. They won't be putting their gear in cabinets yet.

On the other hand, Telecom has spendtbillions rolling out the cabinets and improving backhaul fibre to the exchanges. They deserve some kind of return on investment otherwise they wouldn't invest in infrastructure.

I would recommend you get off a LLU connection if you can for now if you area get a cabinet.

alliao

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#234417 12-Jul-2009 19:50

nzbnw:

I don't think so; remember that Telecom has been separated into 3 business units, Retail, Wholesale and Networks (Chorus). AFAIK Chorus is paid the same line rental irrespective if the customer is LLU or Wholesale, all the same to them.

It is Chorus (Networks) that is rolling out the cabinets, and Telecom Wholesale (who is separate from Chorus and must be treated like every other customer of Chorus) that is installing the ISAM's in the cabinets. Nothing is stopping Vodafone or Orcon installing their own gear in these cabinets except they claim they can’t make the business case stack up. Should NZ broadband suffer because these two Telco’s can’t make the dollars work for them?

Cabinetisation is not a bad thing, it will greatly improve Broadband speeds for the fast majority of subscribers no matter that Orcon and Vodafone might try and spin.

nzbnw

Chorus, aren't they what used to be Downers Engineering?

I see what you mean, basically Vodafone and Orcon aren't prepared to cough up cash as they don't see it'll give them their fair returns, so it's not making any business sense to them by providing upgrades.

From my point of view, before cabinetisation and after, in theory nothing's changed, except I am getting stronger interference on the same cable; hence the degraded performance?

I live in the North Shore, so the path is probably Auckland Main Exchange --- Local Exchange -- Local Cabinet -- My House ?

alliao

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#234418 12-Jul-2009 19:57

Ragnor:
Theoretically it's should be the same as if the cabinet didn't exist. In practice it's worse because stronger signals from the cabinet cause interference in the trunk (not sure if that's the correct term). I don't think there is an easy solution. The roll out of cabinets was planned well before competiting ISP's were allowed to install their equipment in exchanges, so you can't put all the blame on Telecom and none on Orcon, Vodafone etc.

The commerce commision sets the prices that Telecom can charge other ISP's for hosting their equipment in Telecom exchanges (local loop unbundling) and cabinets (sub loop unbundling).

The ISP's say the recently set prices for hosting gear in cabinets and backhaul to the exchange is too high. They won't be putting their gear in cabinets yet.

On the other hand, Telecom has spendtbillions rolling out the cabinets and improving backhaul fibre to the exchanges. They deserve some kind of return on investment otherwise they wouldn't invest in infrastructure.

I would recommend you get off a LLU connection if you can for now if you area get a cabinet.

I had imagined that from Auckland's Main exchanges to local exchanges were all replaced by fibre optics already? I guess if signals and interfere, then obviously we're still using copper cables? And somehow in the route from local exchanges to my house, the interference is so great that it degraded my speed.

I don't know about other parts of the infrastructure, but this last mile bit is just adsl, which means closer I am to the exchange, less attenuation greater signal to noise ratio, better speed. Hence I wondered if llu connections had to travel further in terms of distance. Guess that's not the case.

Wonder if Southern Cross Cables is still the only major trunk that carries data in/out of nz nowadays. And Telecom's stake in that company...

nzbnw

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#234457 12-Jul-2009 21:52

alliao:
Chorus, aren't they what used to be Downers Engineering?

No, Downers are Chorus contractors.

nzbnw

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#234563 13-Jul-2009 09:48

Chrous use contractors from all over.

Infact they recently just changed providers for the North Island, which is why there has been lots of Chorus protesting recently.

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Kilack

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#234571 13-Jul-2009 10:01

old3eyes:
I have just gone back to UBS from LLU. ? In Feb 2010 a cabinet is due to go in about 600 meters from where I live. When this happens will Orcon's UBS be fed from there or still from the current local exchange which is about 4Km away??

?

TIA.

?

?

jus curious why you went back to ubs?

Kyanar

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#234702 13-Jul-2009 13:55

nzbnw:
It is Chorus (Networks) that is rolling out the cabinets, and Telecom Wholesale (who is separate from Chorus and must be treated like every other customer of Chorus) that is installing the ISAM's in the cabinets. Nothing is stopping Vodafone or Orcon installing their own gear in these cabinets except they claim they can’t make the business case stack up. Should NZ broadband suffer because these two Telco’s can’t make the dollars work for them?

Actually, I'm pretty sure I remember Orcon complaining not that it costed so much, but that they are forced to use Telecom's expensive GigE links for backhaul, with no option to use cheaper dark fibre of their own.

alliao

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#234908 13-Jul-2009 20:27

Kilack:

I'm considering too, however I can "feel" from Orcon's webpage that they would prefer me to use Orcon+ (LLU) above anything else.

The reason?

My connection speed was 8.2 sometimes 9Mbps(mega bit per second), now it trains at most 2.2Mbps.

With Youtube going HD and TVNZ, it is quite a significant drop in speed.

phlegmboy

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#234915 13-Jul-2009 20:38

alliao: wonder what will happen to all the Orcon+ customers... after cabinesation there's no word, and speed's gone way down to 2Mbps..

I had this issue as well when a cabinet went in about 1km from my place. My Orcon connection went from 7mbps down to less than 2. I got onto Orcons helpdesk and they found that the cabinet was the cause of the problem. I was moved to the cabinet in a few days, still on my Home+ plan and now I am getting 14.4Mbps

Give them a call. It cannot hurt.

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