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1985 posts

Uber Geek


# 42412 4-Oct-2009 21:15
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Hi,

For the past few days all of the channels on the frequency shared by TV3 (C4, 3 Plus 1 etc) have been breaking up and are totally unwatchable.  This is happening on both my HTPC in the lounge, and my TV in the bedroom using a separate Freeview|HD decoder.  Both are sharing the same outdoor UHF aerial on the top of my apartment block.  The channels on the frequency shared by the TVNZ channels are fine and clear as usual.  The channels on the TV3 frequency have been fine up until late last week.

Now before anyone starts suggesting that the aerial is at fault, I went out to DSE today to get a $50 indoor VHF aerial and have just tried it.  All of the TVNZ channels work fine, but am still experiencing the same issues on the TV3 frequency.

I've posted about an issue like this before (that time it was the total reverse as in the TVNZ channels were terrible and the TV3 ones worked fine) and never got a resolution as the problem eventually fixed itself.

I'm in the Ponsonby area.  Is anyone else experincing issues like this?  What on earth could be causing one set of channels to be affected but not the other?


Cheers.

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64 posts

Master Geek

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  # 261088 5-Oct-2009 10:40
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Hey Satch,

I'm in an Appartment block in the CBD and seeing exactly the same thing on TV3 (For about a week now). But my C4 is mostly ok.

I'm Using Media Center on Windows 7 and was just hoping it'd go away on its own :)



1985 posts

Uber Geek


  # 261114 5-Oct-2009 12:04
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Well at least I'm not the only one this time and it looks more likely to be a reception issue rather than a localised equipment issue.

The next question is - to whom can I report this issue to?

 
 
 
 




1985 posts

Uber Geek


  # 261125 5-Oct-2009 12:39
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I looked at the Freeview site and found an 0800 number so I called it. After listening to 3 hours worth of recorded messages, I finally got through to a real person, the team leader of their 'call centre'.

He also resides in Auckland City and has not been experiencing any issues with any of the channels. The only issue it could be is that my apartment's UHF aerial is pointing out west and not at the Sky Tower. Although I'm still a little puzzled as the indoor one I got from DSE didn't work when pointed at the Sky Tower, but TVNZ channels worked when pointed out west...

862 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 261167 5-Oct-2009 13:32
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Satch: Hi,

For the past few days all of the channels on the frequency shared by TV3 (C4, 3 Plus 1 etc) have been breaking up and are totally unwatchable.  This is happening on both my HTPC in the lounge, and my TV in the bedroom using a separate Freeview|HD decoder.  Both are sharing the same outdoor UHF aerial on the top of my apartment block.  The channels on the frequency shared by the TVNZ channels are fine and clear as usual.  The channels on the TV3 frequency have been fine up until late last week.

Now before anyone starts suggesting that the aerial is at fault,

It will be a signal issue,check the BER/Qual between the TVNZ/TV3 muxes.


I went out to DSE today to get a $50 indoor VHF aerial and have just tried it. 

Money wasted 


All of the TVNZ channels work fine, but am still experiencing the same issues on the TV3 frequency.

I've posted about an issue like this before (that time it was the total reverse as in the TVNZ channels were terrible and the TV3 ones worked fine) and never got a resolution as the problem eventually fixed itself.

I'm in the Ponsonby area.  Is anyone else experincing issues like this?  What on earth could be causing one set of channels to be affected but not the other?


Cheers.


The BER should give you a clue




1985 posts

Uber Geek


  # 261213 5-Oct-2009 13:56
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Brunzy:Now before anyone starts suggesting that the aerial is at fault,

It will be a signal issue,check the BER/Qual between the TVNZ/TV3 muxes.


I went out to DSE today to get a $50 indoor VHF aerial and have just tried it. 

Money wasted 

The BER should give you a clue



Hi Brunzy,

Please tell me a bit more about 'BER'.  How do I check this?

Also, the indoor UHF (not VHF as i incorrectly put) is not a waste of money at all.  I purposely purchased it from DSE so I could return it today.  Plus it gave me piece of mind that it wasn't the fault of my apartments outdoor aerial.


Cheers.

22336 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 261245 5-Oct-2009 14:38
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Satch: I looked at the Freeview site and found an 0800 number so I called it. After listening to 3 hours worth of recorded messages, I finally got through to a real person, the team leader of their 'call centre'.

He also resides in Auckland City and has not been experiencing any issues with any of the channels. The only issue it could be is that my apartment's UHF aerial is pointing out west and not at the Sky Tower. Although I'm still a little puzzled as the indoor one I got from DSE didn't work when pointed at the Sky Tower, but TVNZ channels worked when pointed out west...


Did you rescan between the sites? Also skytower is vertical so make sure you point it correctly.




Richard rich.ms



1985 posts

Uber Geek


  # 261255 5-Oct-2009 14:54
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richms: Did you rescan between the sites? Also skytower is vertical so make sure you point it correctly.


Ahh, no...Embarassed

 
 
 
 


862 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 261280 5-Oct-2009 15:36
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Satch:
Brunzy:Now before anyone starts suggesting that the aerial is at fault,

It will be a signal issue,check the BER/Qual between the TVNZ/TV3 muxes.


I went out to DSE today to get a $50 indoor VHF aerial and have just tried it. 

Money wasted 

The BER should give you a clue



Hi Brunzy,

Please tell me a bit more about 'BER'.  How do I check this?

Also, the indoor UHF (not VHF as i incorrectly put) is not a waste of money at all.  I purposely purchased it from DSE so I could return it today.  Plus it gave me piece of mind that it wasn't the fault of my apartments outdoor aerial.


Cheers.


Satch,

BER  Bit Error Rate/Ratio ie the no of errors in the stream

Absolute min for error free rec is Post Viterbi <2E-4 ,
Pref <2E-7 or pre V (B4 error corr <8E-4).

You may find it on your HTPC,
the STBox will report it as Quality and is only a rough guide.

I'd suspect yuor BER/Q is poor on the TV works mux.

the quality of cable in  your appt,may also be a factor, all else being equal



1985 posts

Uber Geek


  # 261297 5-Oct-2009 16:03
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Just remember that it has been working fine for the entire time I've had Freeview|HD (shortly after launch) up until now. And the indoor aerial gave me the exact same results (pointing in the same direction as the outdoor aerial). So I've eliminated equipment failure at least...

22336 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 261325 5-Oct-2009 16:43
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Could be localized interference causing it. Unfortunatly from past experiance the MED guys dont give a toss about investigating interference like that.




Richard rich.ms



1985 posts

Uber Geek


  # 261331 5-Oct-2009 16:56
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I asked the guy on the Freeview hotline about localised interference and he said it is unlikely. Plus another guy posted above with the same issue and he said he was in Auckland CBD which is at least 1km away from me.

Baffling at best...

373 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 261536 6-Oct-2009 10:22
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Satch, I tend to agree with you. I also believe there is variability in transmission signals.

I live in a house (so no shared aerial) in Narrow Neck (North Shore - Auckland). I have line of site to Waiatarua and my aerial is on the ridge of the roof.

I have a Sony Bravia TV and have no problems with Freeview reception on this device. But I also have a Hauppage 900H USB Hybrid (Analouge + Digital) TV Tuner running WinTV7.

On the USB device I often get picture freeze on the Kordia DVB-T mux and some times the MediaWorks one - but never TVNZ.

WinTV comes with a basic Signal Monitor program which gives the following SNR readings this morning and in (brackets) from last weekend:

TVNZ: 30.0 (30.0)
MediaWorks: 27.4 (27.4)
Kordia: 28.8 (21.8) notice the difference here. Kordia was unwatchable in the weekend.

This morning I checked the Viterbi readings on the Sony as suggested by Brunzy and this was the outcome:

TVNZ: pre 9.0 e-5
MediaWorks: pre 1.3 e-3
Kordia: pre 5.2 e-4

Post Viterbi was zero for all muxs.

To be honest I am not sure how to interpret this data.



1985 posts

Uber Geek


  # 261615 6-Oct-2009 12:04
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My TV3 etc reception has come right again...

862 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 261687 6-Oct-2009 13:55
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steve2222: Satch, I tend to agree with you. I also believe there is variability in transmission signals.

I live in a house (so no shared aerial) in Narrow Neck (North Shore - Auckland). I have line of site to Waiatarua and my aerial is on the ridge of the roof.

I have a Sony Bravia TV and have no problems with Freeview reception on this device. But I also have a Hauppage 900H USB Hybrid (Analouge + Digital) TV Tuner running WinTV7.

On the USB device I often get picture freeze on the Kordia DVB-T mux and some times the MediaWorks one - but never TVNZ.

WinTV comes with a basic Signal Monitor program which gives the following SNR readings this morning and in (brackets) from last weekend:

TVNZ: 30.0 (30.0)
MediaWorks: 27.4 (27.4)
Kordia: 28.8 (21.8) notice the difference here. Kordia was unwatchable in the weekend.

This morning I checked the Viterbi readings on the Sony as suggested by Brunzy and this was the outcome:

TVNZ: pre 9.0 e-5
MediaWorks: pre 1.3 e-3
Kordia: pre 5.2 e-4

Post Viterbi was zero for all muxs.

To be honest I am not sure how to interpret this data.


Steve,

You shouldn't have any problems with that quality,
altough normally  LOS readings I find are around E-6.
I would be checking your antenna/terminations etc.

I have no experience of USB sticks but chances are it is not as sensitive as the Bravia.
Make sure you do not have a moulded flylead from the outlet to the USB.
Thay are notorious for signal fluctuation

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