Long IT employment sabbatical, hire Resume writer and change to functional over chronological?

Forums › IT Pro and developers › Long IT employment sabbatical, hire Resume writer and change to functional over chronological?

TeaLeaf

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#291864 9-Dec-2021 12:36

Apologies if in wrong place, didnt see a careers or education section.

Maybe somebody has been down this path of life changes and wanting to resume employment?

Due to a number of reasons, I havnt been employed by others for a very long time (7 years or so). Been focusing on other things in life along with recovering my own health issues (which have come a long way recently). Mostly I have been helping my partner with her work (Science), travelled prior to covid and have seen both parents pass away.

Im finishing off a new degree but can probably start looking for work again soon.

I am a bit nervous/worried, returning to IT, things have changed. In saying that Im an analyst by nature and project manager (software but originally a network analyst, 56k, adsl, cisco etc) mostly and have kept my finger on the industry's pulse. Ideally Id like to do something more strategic like Ent Architecture, but no rush. I still have some certs, Prince 2, but some lapsed, TOGAF. I also like the sound of Product Management, clearly would need to take baby steps in either direction.

I see a number of Marine software firms around, which I would be passionate about joining. I think to be happy in employment you need to believe in who you are working for and what you are doing. Otherwise it becomes mind numbing and meaningless.

But Im not sure how to explain my sabbatical/time away and Im wondering if Resume folk are my best start and if they are worth the money?

Im thinking given such a large break in IT employment, it best to focus my resume functionally rather than chronologically ?

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#2829510 9-Dec-2021 14:56

I'd suggest the most important thing is not to delay. The IT job market is very much in employee favour at the moment, with the economy booming (in many sectors, if not in tourism) and the current inability to import foreign workers. You might be surprised what an employer would accept in an effort to get a bum on a seat right now. That may all change with a downturn in the economy and/or the opening up of borders.

Seven years is not a disaster if you have kept up your IT skills, especially in the softer people/business-centric stuff like Project Management. But (e.g.) Visual Basic with desktop GUI would be a hard sell nowadays. You might want to get yourself upskilled to Cloud architecture, especially Azure which seems much more common than AWS in NZ.

timmmay

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#2829536 9-Dec-2021 15:21

Agree, it's definitely a tight market so it's a good time to get in. If you have good experience time off shouldn't be a major issue, but you should put at least a short explaination in your CV and expect questions in any interview.

Azure might be more common than AWS, but there's a LOT of AWS work in NZ, and it will probably pick up when the AWS NZ region opens in a few years. People either qualified or skilled in AWS are in short supply, probably the same for Azure.

grimwulf

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#2829557 9-Dec-2021 15:49

I don't think you need a resume writer and I don't think time out of the industry would affect a PM role - getting projects over the line is something that takes experience, and if you have that experience you're good. Technology changes all the damn time - the skills required to herd the cats and keep them moving in the delivery direction never do.

That said your resume should focus on your experience and skills - you will need to list your employment history but I would suggest you front foot that and simply state that you've been doing your own thing running your own business etc. Yes some green HR recruiter may pass at that point, but most will see your experience.

One thing to be wary of is, don't just put nothing there - state the dates, what you've been doing and fill the gap - lots of recruiters/orgs use software to first pass resumes and that may red flag before it gets to a human.

Remember the only purpose of a resume is to get to interview and provide some scaffolding for that conversation. That conversation should be about your experience and what you can/have done, not your career break.

One of the issues I find people that take a break from careers have is that their confidence takes a dip for whatever reason - and reading your post it sounds like that's the case here too. There's no real reason for that - if you were previously successful in your career you haven't suddenly lost all those skills (heck you may have improved on them and got new ones in your time away from IT) sure some might atrophy over time if you haven't used them but IT isn't a sport - it's not like you hit 30 and can't play professionally anymore - your skills are still there.

If you've previously delivered projects as a PM that's a big thing - it's not something you can learn from a book or a theory or methodology manual - real-life project delivery experience is valuable - don't undervalue yourself. Nothing I hate more on my projects are green PMs... so painful.

Focus on what you can and have done - maybe initially on BA or PM roles or whatever and once within those roles buddy up to folks that are doing what you want to do - EA or strategy or whatever. They'll tell you what you actually need and you'll be re-invigorating you CV with project delivery experience you can refer to.

To be blunt, I'd say you're probably not going to get far trying to land an EA role as a previous BA/PM with a 7 year career gap - regardless of what certifications you get. However getting back on the horse, delivering a few projects and gradually moving in that direction will get you there.

Another thing I find the confidence hit does is mess with your networking skills. Hit up some of your old bosses or colleagues on LinkedIn or something - if they're still in the industry and you got on well they could hook you up. the good times factor is a real thing. The opposite of course is true if you burned bridges, but hopefully that's not the case, and even if so, time is a great healer ;).

Seriously no reason to be nervous about doing so (as you probably are due to the confidence thing) - hit them up, tell them you're looking to get back into work - assuming they remember you well and you have some good war stories they're likely to put in a good word for you or act as a reference perhaps.

And this became a whole lotta words. Good luck! :).

Zeon

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#2829575 9-Dec-2021 16:47

The NZ IT market is currently chronically short of staff. Until borders re-open its only going to get worse. Don't delay getting back in.

I think you should rehearse the story for your time away as it is an immediate red flag. Unfortunately technology changes quickly and personally if I were hiring and saw that it would probably relegate me to only consider a junior position. You may need to do that and try and build your way up as fastas you can if you can't secure a betetr position from day 1.

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SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2829576 9-Dec-2021 16:58

I am in a similar situation to you, having been out of full time employment for a similar length of time. I was made redundant not long after losing a family member to illness. You could accurately sum up any random weekday for the prior twelve months as wake up, go to work, go to the hospital, grab takeaways, go home to eat, go back to the hospital, go home and go to bed. It was truly exhausting, and quite frankly, redundancy was a welcome excuse to take a break. I ended up travelling, did some house sitting, investigated buying a business in a completely different field and a little bit of contract IT work. I looked for work sporadically, but only applied for roles that interested me. In 2018, my grandmother's health deteriorated significantly, so I made spending as much time as possible with her a priority. By the time I was looking for work again, we were faced with COVID and the job market went south for much of 2020. It's not been so bad in 2021, but the extra delays have certainly not helped finding work.

I have found most recruiters are next to useless and most don't even bother sending a standard rejection template e-mail. It's abundantly clear from those who have responded over the years that they don't have a clue what they are doing, and only want to match titles and keywords to positions. As such, my priority has been and remains applying directly to potential employers. Unfortunately, many employers just want to do the same, looking for people with experience with specific tools or frameworks. I have had interviews (multiple in some cases) for the type of work I have been looking for, but the reality is I am going to have to find something soon, because the cost of living has gone through the roof.

My experience is very broad, having worked in and alongside developments teams, with project management (strategic direction, backlog refinement etc.), R&D, technical pre-sales and generally filling any role which needed doing to get products shipped. As such, I am primarily looking at a hands-off team lead (I was previously a hands-on team lead) or technical management role. Recruiters see C developer and don't look any further. Even those that do tend to come back with C embedded development positions or similar, and they completely overlook the fact that I have more than twenty years of experience working with Internet technologies, including Web proxies and servers. My skills are far more suited to modern Web-based development that embedded systems, but they can't look past the fact that I code primarily in C, and have only limited experience with modern frameworks.

I place zero worth on any industry qualifications. Employers seem to love them though, so they will certainly help your chances.

My CV is chronological. I have found this works best. I have never attempted to hide my absence (full time) from the industry and I am quite happy to discuss the details with recruiters or potential employers. I always write a cover letter for every role outlining relevant experience with as much detail as the job listing allows. It's their job to explore all the options put before them. If an absence is gong to bother them, I doubt giving them my whole life story is going to change their mind.

TeaLeaf

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#2829588 9-Dec-2021 17:35

timmmay:

Azure might be more common than AWS

Thanks Timmmay and all ya'll, brought a smile back to my ultra doubtful face. I didnt realise the market was so hot.

Im more confident around MS than Amazon. Im hoping Azure and Dynamics continue to be in demand.......

My last skill set was managing what at the time was cutting edge metering and delivering AI based report for companies to decide their manufacturing expenditure (Tariff based) on such reports. Was a lot of what was then .Net I essentially became the only person who knew everything, which was a pain as I ended up having to map the existing but poorly designed DB schema, I had to point out to the developer which assetts etc in .Net we should be using, I ran a very tight ship using waterfall and RAD together, which ended up in bi weekly iterations for the Sponsor and Stakeholder. Demanding they were, but so was I when they tried throwing every Use Case/Requirement into the A category (simple A to E weighting). One of those roles you have to throw yourself into or you sink.

Project wise it ran ultra smoothly, but it took a lot out of me. Was commuting long distance as I lived in paradise.

In the end I had to do the BA work and write a Business Case to redevelop a highly dysfunctional DB set up, they were cutting a slice from the live Oracle DB to a a MSQL DB and it was rubbish for the customers because it was not the real time they were sold on. I had to justify a huge spend. Justify why we needed to put it to the Govt why the live customer data needed to be duplicated. In the end my business case won, we built an identical DB based on just those fields that were required, so more Schema Mapping but was easy as by then I had figured out where everything was. So we had live data mirrored so the reports could be populated with real time data.

So I feel more confident with Azure cloud simply because I know what is in it and Ive kept training as my Mrs has open access to the Linked in stuff which was Lynda.com Im pretty sure. That takes me back a while.

Everything you guys are saying is encouraging and I feel less self doubt. There is no way I could go back to cutting code, or network engineering, but Im confident I know a little about a lot to offer somebody and have very good PM skills which I can apply in other methodologies if its demanded.

Should I continue with Azure and Dynamics training? I was going to get cert in both. I see MS remaining as the go to office products for the future, or at least in the next 10 years or so.

SirHumphreyAppleby:

My CV is chronological. I have found this works best. I have never attempted to hide my absence (full time) from the industry and I am quite happy to discuss the details with recruiters or potential employers. I always write a cover letter for every role outlining relevant experience with as much detail as the job listing allows. It's their job to explore all the options put before them. If an absence is gong to bother them, I doubt giving them my whole life story is going to change their mind.

Yes I hear ya, I have nothing to hide either. I took time out for valid reasons and have nothing to hide about those reasons. Also I actually wanted to pinch some time from my retirement, simply because I financially could. I dont see what is wrong with enjoying life while you are young, then putting in some real tough work prior to retirement.

I have a fair bit of super sitting in Australia and Id like to get back there to add to it given the tax free and matched amounts then the taxed amount and you can self manage the fund. Ultimately I plan to reinvest that money back into NZ though.

But for now, Im happy to pick up a job anywhere. As long as they are realistic, not about me, but about their own work and I dont have staff for whatever reasons trying to bully me like my last role in NZ, super bizarre, some how I was seen as a threat. I was offered a permanent position which I turned down and thats when I decided it was time to travel.

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TeaLeaf

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#2829593 9-Dec-2021 17:56

grimwulf:

I don't think you need a resume writer and I don't think time out of the industry would affect a PM role - getting projects over the line is something that takes experience, and if you have that experience you're good. Technology changes all the damn time - the skills required to herd the cats and keep them moving in the delivery direction never do.

Thanks grim

I certainly have a tenacious attitude and an extremely analytical mind to drive projects logically, they get done. Im very confident about that. The technical skills, well Ive kept my finger in there, but I need to get stuck into whichever technical projects I plan to lead with more training. Im thinking Azure and Dynamics. But keeping things moving and making sure they are done on time and to budget along with delivering use cases that I help people understand are their top priorities is my biggest assett. I have no lack of confidence in talking to a CEO or the local sponsor of a project, as long as they understand why things are important to them and what can be done within the budget required, everything usually works out within the project management scope.

Im also not afraid to start as a BA or whatever. But Im pretty sure if somebody interviews me they will see a lot of value for money, that is what I offer. And definitely not aiming for an EA position immediately, Im still not sure if Id rather head towards product management.

TeaLeaf

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#2829597 9-Dec-2021 18:12

Zeon:

The NZ IT market is currently chronically short of staff. Until borders re-open its only going to get worse. Don't delay getting back in.

I don't think Im going to be fully ready until around March. Of course this is when CIO budgets float down for projects. Hopefully this lack of staff continues for a few more months.

Why is it occuring, I don't understand why there are not enough Kiwis in NZ to fill these roles? Were we relying on skilled migrants prior is that the cause?

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2829603 9-Dec-2021 18:49

TeaLeaf:

Why is it occuring, I don't understand why there are not enough Kiwis in NZ to fill these roles? Were we relying on skilled migrants prior is that the cause?

There has been an over-reliance on immigration for a long time. Several of these so-called 'skilled' migrants I've worked with have been anything but. Others have been brilliant. I don't have an issue with bringing in people when there is a genuine need, but I feel all too often there is not.

I mentioned employers looking for experience with specific frameworks and my lack of trust in industry qualifications in my earlier post. Neither of these things should support hiring a migrant over someone local, but it seems that may be what is happening given how specific some job posts are. There are smart people here who are willing to work if given the opportunity and necessary training.

My view is that the industry has become so fragmented that it's simply easier to match keywords than it is to understand the intricacies of each role being recruited for. Agile and the variety of roles/responsibilities has also contributed to the mess. This is why I apply for roles primarily within companies, hoping the application initially goes to someone who understands the technical requirements of the position and hasn't just been given a list of keywords to match.

timmmay

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#2829622 9-Dec-2021 20:02

If you know Azure refresh your knowledge, get a current certification, and go for it. Just make sure you're honest and upfront about your time away, or at least have a good story. I wouldn't hold it against you but I would probably put you in a more junior role until you've proven yourself again. Wouldn't take long if you're competent.

TeaLeaf

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#2829626 9-Dec-2021 20:30

SirHumphreyAppleby:

My view is that the industry has become so fragmented that it's simply easier to match keywords than it is to understand the intricacies of each role being recruited for. Agile and the variety of roles/responsibilities has also contributed to the mess.

hmm yes perhaps. Corporate methodologies imo are designed to create roles, ie Six sigma, much like Agile, imo not necessary. Can run short iterative work with proceeding SLDC methodologies. So I see your point. But I wouldnt let it get to you, keep on trucking.

My friends in Aus are telling me its much the same there, so it must have been migrant work filling positions. Thats all I can think of. But over there the whole contractor process is much easier, all insurance is included in your hourly rate, your super on top and your health insurance in your tax (or private if earn over $50k is usually better than medicare which is already well ahead of NZ public health). I always have had high call back rates on my CV, so Im hoping what you are saying, I will avoid, I try to get to know quality agents rather than spamming seek etc.

timmmay:

If you know Azure refresh your knowledge, get a current certification, and go for it. Just make sure you're honest and upfront about your time away, or at least have a good story. I wouldn't hold it against you but I would probably put you in a more junior role until you've proven yourself again. Wouldn't take long if you're competent.

yep have some knowledge still and was looking at certing Azure and possibly Dynamics, they have architect certs as well, but that would be a while off. Im happy doing BA type work for a while. I have nothing to hide, I simply took time off because I could and I felt it the right thing to do for various reasons and have enjoyed the time out. Thats basically my story, of course I could go into detail in interviews about places Ive been or working in ecology work as a means to do something different for a bit etc.

Ultimately though, I know I will end up doing most of the work, because wherever Ive worked, people dont work as hard or as competently as me. I dont mean that in an arrogant way. I just know people get relaxed in a role. I think thats what upset my last co worker, she was young and inexperienced and thought she knew everything about BA work, but in reality she was doing technical support work. Which for me was not my caper but I still managed to earn a perm role, which I turned down as the PM's were hopeless and the whole IT department was fragmented and had no cohesion. Was not a good, my first job back in NZ, not the first one I mentioned, that was in Aus. So I decided time to look after family and do my own thing as I had the resources.

So yeah, dont expect to start as a CIO lol, dont even care if not PM, because reality is usually if you are competent, thy end up getting you to do multiple roles anyway.

I think Azure is the right path for me technically speaking simply because I have that background and Ive kept up with it somewhat. I did some SCRUM training, but honestly I think waterfall with RaD does fast simple iterative SDLC anyway, but yeah, whatever they need, I can learn, or will do. Thats my attitude anyway.

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quickymart

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#2829647 9-Dec-2021 22:13

TeaLeaf:

Apologies if in wrong place, didnt see a careers or education section.

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=75

djtOtago

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#2829779 10-Dec-2021 08:55

@quickymart
The description for the forum you linked to.

Doesn't really fit the discussion here.

frankv

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#2829789 10-Dec-2021 09:20

TeaLeaf:

Zeon:

The NZ IT market is currently chronically short of staff. Until borders re-open its only going to get worse. Don't delay getting back in.

Why is it occuring, I don't understand why there are not enough Kiwis in NZ to fill these roles? Were we relying on skilled migrants prior is that the cause?

The IT job market follows the economy... back in the 90s when I was teaching programming, a strong economy would see employers coming to us around exam time looking for good students. A weak economy would see us calling employers looking for jobs for our students.

When times are tough, marginal companies go broke, belts are tightened and projects are deferred, redundancies happen, the job market shrinks but job seekers increase. When times are good, all those deferred projects suddenly become possible, and companies are growing and expanding and want to upgrade their software & systems to match their capacity. But they only have enough people to maintain existing systems, so they start hiring, or hiring contractors.

TeaLeaf

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#2829837 10-Dec-2021 10:54

frankv:

When times are good, all those deferred projects suddenly become possible, and companies are growing and expanding and want to upgrade their software & systems to match their capacity. But they only have enough people to maintain existing systems, so they start hiring, or hiring contractors.

Yes indeed, quite experienced with that side of things. I studied commerce not IT, currently studying management in business systems, feel like its a waste of time given I already know more than what Im learning. But I suppose a piece of paper is sometimes helpful, it has the words "Information Systems" in the degree [insert rolls my eyes]. I just thought studying something while I was not working shows Im doing something?

One thing Ive done a fair bit of is writing business cases at executive level for funding. But most of the time its that period after Xmas, the business case goes through and its excepted or its not and usually it is, but there is a lag until around Feb-March when projects kick off again, thus allowing for IT contractors to gain employment.

What you are describing with economic pressures I have never had to consider, but makes optimal sense to me. What I don't understand is why we are in "good" times? Economic uncertainty is how Id describe our economy. Ever growing into Debt as the current Govt's way of dealing with things, when the hammer of normality comes down, will we plunge into chaos is the question most are wondering I suppose. Dont have the brilliance of the Key govt to save our economy so people can then hyper inflate the property market instead of running a real economy to get out of the hole the rest of the world felt.

Are you saying its all economics related the vast employee shortage? Nothing to do with migrant specialists? (genuine question, Id really like to know).

I guess for me I just need a rough guess as to when this is likely to end? I am realistically around start of March away from being capable. Have a few personal health issues I want to make sure are eradicated prior.

I feel I need to demonstrate I still know a technical framework, so Im sticking with Azure, I hope thats not a bad choice, but as a key word in seek it brings up a LOT of jobs.

Thanks Franky :-) much appreciated.

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