Revisiting Net Neutrality in New Zealand

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sailedpeep

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#225516 22-Nov-2017 19:25

It's now 2017 and the net neutrality debate in the U.S. seems to have flared up again with the actions of the FCC under it's new chairman. With the launch of things like Vodafone Pass, where services like Lightbox are excluded; should it also be up for debate in NZ?

richms

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#1905949 22-Nov-2017 19:48

No, because we have choice of ISP in NZ. In the US you usually have one cable option, and possibly one so slow it is useless ADSL option for most people.

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sbiddle

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#1905988 22-Nov-2017 20:42

Net neutrality is a myth. It can not and never has existed. TCP/IP is a multiplexed network with a finite capacity. Therefore all packets can't be treated equally.

I've commented to several people in recent days about Vodafone Pass as I'm interested in the views of people who believe it's "anti net neutrality". Why do you believe this? Vodafone aren't rate shaping or impacting the performance of Lightbox, they are merely offering unlimited use of some other (competing) services for a flat rate. Do you have issues with Spark giving away Lightbox for free? And if not why not?

sailedpeep

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#1906795 23-Nov-2017 21:50

sbiddle:

Net neutrality is a myth. It can not and never has existed. TCP/IP is a multiplexed network with a finite capacity. Therefore all packets can't be treated equally.

I've commented to several people in recent days about Vodafone Pass as I'm interested in the views of people who believe it's "anti net neutrality". Why do you believe this? Vodafone aren't rate shaping or impacting the performance of Lightbox, they are merely offering unlimited use of some other (competing) services for a flat rate. Do you have issues with Spark giving away Lightbox for free? And if not why not?

I think the current net neutrality debate (in the U.S.) is deeply flawed. The internet and how it works is a complex creature that can't be explained with a road/milkshake/library analogy and that doing so is misinforming many many people. Personally, I believe in the general principles/spirit of net neutrality but not that they should be enshrined legally.

One of those I'm in opposition to, is paid prioritization. ComCom doesn't have a definition for paid prioritization, so I'll just use the FCC's

“Paid prioritization” refers to the management of a broadband provider's network to directly or indirectly favor some traffic over other traffic, including through use of techniques such as traffic shaping, prioritization, resource reservation, or other forms of preferential traffic management, either; (1) In exchange for consideration (monetary or otherwise) from a third party, or to benefit an affiliated entity.

Vodafone directly benefits monetarily from cutting Lightbox out. Their own Vodafone TV service is part of the 'Video Pass' and Spark is their largest competition. Personally, I think that a plan like this is a slippery slope, getting people used to the idea of bundles so they can become more prevalent in low-cost budget plans. Innovation on the web prospers when every site is given the opportunity to compete, not to shut out.

rugrat

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#1906803 23-Nov-2017 22:08

sbiddle:
Net neutrality is a myth. It can not and never has existed. TCP/IP is a multiplexed network with a finite capacity. Therefore all packets can't be treated equally.

I've commented to several people in recent days about Vodafone Pass as I'm interested in the views of people who believe it's "anti net neutrality". Why do you believe this? Vodafone aren't rate shaping or impacting the performance of Lightbox, they are merely offering unlimited use of some other (competing) services for a flat rate. Do you have issues with Spark giving away Lightbox for free? And if not why not?

Giving Lightbox away for free is not treating that data differently, plus if paying for Lightbox Fixed cost per month.

Giving a fixed charge for unlimited data only to certain companies for video, is treating data from those companies differently.
Also if on different ISP, Lightbox cost is $12.99.
If using Vodafone pass and not using their video companies, charge could go into $100's of dollars for watching from an unapproved company.
It creates an incentive for companies to pay Vodafone to be on list.

My 2.5 cents.

hio77

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#1906807 23-Nov-2017 22:16

sbiddle:

Net neutrality is a myth. It can not and never has existed. TCP/IP is a multiplexed network with a finite capacity. Therefore all packets can't be treated equally.

I've commented to several people in recent days about Vodafone Pass as I'm interested in the views of people who believe it's "anti net neutrality". Why do you believe this? Vodafone aren't rate shaping or impacting the performance of Lightbox, they are merely offering unlimited use of some other (competing) services for a flat rate. Do you have issues with Spark giving away Lightbox for free? And if not why not?

If anything i find the vodafone passes ironic when arguing net neutrality considering the fine print.

If you have a Video Pass, your video content will be optimised to a maximum resolution of 480p.

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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

blakamin

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#1906824 23-Nov-2017 22:26

sbiddle:

Net neutrality is a myth. It can not and never has existed. TCP/IP is a multiplexed network with a finite capacity. Therefore all packets can't be treated equally.

But that's not the "Net Neutrality" that the FCC, or anyone in the US is talking about.

It's nothing about the limits of TCP/IP and equal packets at all.

They* aren't about the "what's in the packets", but who those packets come from and where they're going, and how they can make more money by delivering them for an extra price, whether the extra comes from the destination or the originator (or in the long term, both) they won't care... for now.

*"They" are the likes of Comcast and Verizon and any number of juggernauts that are going to "cable TV" (or tier) the internet in the US.

It will eventually effect everyone, as your data gets slowed down when it reaches the US because OS traffic aren't paying, so why would they deliver it at any decent speed?

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ripdog

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#1906839 23-Nov-2017 22:46

Uh, Net Neutrality is useful even in scenarios like "vodafone pass" because those types of offers entrench the encumbent players, and change the rules. If I want to make a new video hosting site, do I get added to the free video data offer? No, because vodafone doesn't care about me. This means that not only do I have to fight the fact that I have no users and little revenue, but also the fact that the network itself is biased against me, because the big guys have an unlimited streaming product which I cannot match.

It's still not a big issue in NZ simply because mobile data gets cheaper every year, IMO. Still, I would like to see it enshrined in law simply to ensure it is never an issue. It also sends a statement to the rest of the world, and could be seen as a form of moral leadership.

Dratsab

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#1906842 23-Nov-2017 23:08

sailedpeep: It's now 2017 and the net neutrality debate in the U.S. seems to have flared up again with the actions of the FCC under it's new chairman. With the launch of things like Vodafone Pass, where services like Lightbox are excluded; should it also be up for debate in NZ?

I don't think Lightbox is excluded, it's simply not included at this point. Neither is TV3 On Demand or YouTube.

The page you've linked to lists Netflix, Neon, Sky Go, Vodafone TV, TVNZ OnDemand and Vevo as being available services and goes on to say "More apps coming soon".

Could Lightbox be one of those apps? If not, is there anything to stop Lightbox applying to be included as a Video Pass app? (maybe @GeorgefromLightbox could chime in here?)

ajw

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#1906886 24-Nov-2017 07:55

Slightly off topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=1B0u6nvcTsI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9laGMO2IAM

Junta

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#1907025 24-Nov-2017 10:53

Dratsab:

sailedpeep: It's now 2017 and the net neutrality debate in the U.S. seems to have flared up again with the actions of the FCC under it's new chairman. With the launch of things like Vodafone Pass, where services like Lightbox are excluded; should it also be up for debate in NZ?

I don't think Lightbox is excluded, it's simply not included at this point. Neither is TV3 On Demand or YouTube.

The page you've linked to lists Netflix, Neon, Sky Go, Vodafone TV, TVNZ OnDemand and Vevo as being available services and goes on to say "More apps coming soon".

Could Lightbox be one of those apps? If not, is there anything to stop Lightbox applying to be included as a Video Pass app? (maybe @GeorgefromLightbox could chime in here?)

To my knowledge there've not been any convos about adding LB to the VF Pass product...