Fibre internal wiring query - Looks like house wasn't ducted to patch panel

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Fibre internal wiring query - Looks like house wasn't ducted to patch panel

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Chorus

#2232190 7-May-2019 10:52

openmedia:

Landlord has assumed there would be conduit in the walls and doesn't want the walls drilled or visible conduit which is a bit of a problem.

We've tried testing the existing phone cable to see if it could be used as a pull-thru but it won't move so I'm assuning the run from outside the house is to the patch panel is too tight.

I'm yet to see a builder use conduit internally for cable runs. Its always just a hole drilled through the supporting beams and cable stuffed through. That's why you cant just yank out the existing cable with a new one strapped on for the ride. Holes are too small and sharp angles causing things to get stuck.

Based on what you are saying running the mentioned cable in trunking/capping) as in your post able) through the garage is probably the only real option.

This. Unless you or the landlord is happy to pay for the drywall to be cut and patched to allow for internal running, it sounds like this is going to be your best option.

^Richard

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#2232214 7-May-2019 11:47

Chorusnz:

openmedia:

Landlord has assumed there would be conduit in the walls and doesn't want the walls drilled or visible conduit which is a bit of a problem.

We've tried testing the existing phone cable to see if it could be used as a pull-thru but it won't move so I'm assuning the run from outside the house is to the patch panel is too tight.

I'm yet to see a builder use conduit internally for cable runs. Its always just a hole drilled through the supporting beams and cable stuffed through. That's why you cant just yank out the existing cable with a new one strapped on for the ride. Holes are too small and sharp angles causing things to get stuck.

Based on what you are saying running the mentioned cable in trunking/capping) as in your post able) through the garage is probably the only real option.

This. Unless you or the landlord is happy to pay for the drywall to be cut and patched to allow for internal running, it sounds like this is going to be your best option.

^Richard

Richard - many thanks for the response. My only concern is the Bend Radius requirements of the Hybrid cable. I'm trying to aim for a straight run to require the minimum number of bends.

Has anyone here tried this type of ducting https://www.bunnings.co.nz/d-line-conduit-trunking-30x15mm-white-2-0m_p00188218

Cheers

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Chorusnz

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Chorus

#2232245 7-May-2019 12:29

For Chorus Fibre cables we suggest a minimum bend radius of 20mm.

The calculation for best practice is 10 times the diameter of the cable being bent so the hybrid being thicker would want for a larger bend.

However Fibre is capable of following much tighter bends, see the 7.5 mm bend radius, its just more risky (possibility of pinching gets high).

^Richard

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#2232248 7-May-2019 12:38

Chorusnz:

For Chorus Fibre cables we suggest a minimum bend radius of 20mm.

The calculation for best practice is 10 times the diameter of the cable being bent so the hybrid being thicker would want for a larger bend.

However Fibre is capable of following much tighter bends, see the 7.5 mm bend radius, its just more risky (possibility of pinching gets high).

^Richard

But for the hybrid cable it has a 6mm diameter which would push this to a much larger bend radius of 60mm

https://www.prysmiancable.co.nz/cables/optict5e/

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

cyril7

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#2232258 7-May-2019 12:52

Hi, the bend radius is for the fibre itself, which is a 1.3mm bundle in the middle with the 4 pairs of cat5e, not the entire cable. As with most modern fibre patch leads and cables used for patching etc its made of a special bend tolerant fibre. As such it has a slightly higher loss than normal fibre, but can be bent as noted above and the light follows the core, plus it is more tolerant to fracture.

Cyril

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#2232299 7-May-2019 15:22

cyril7:

Hi, the bend radius is for the fibre itself, which is a 1.3mm bundle in the middle with the 4 pairs of cat5e, not the entire cable. As with most modern fibre patch leads and cables used for patching etc its made of a special bend tolerant fibre. As such it has a slightly higher loss than normal fibre, but can be bent as noted above and the light follows the core, plus it is more tolerant to fracture.

Cyril

Thanks for that. I don't want to fit conduit and then have the Chrorus contractor decide it isn't suitable.

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#2232303 7-May-2019 15:34

surfisup1000:

If I were the landlord, I'd pay to sort it out myself. Lean on them.

Try renting out a house that cannot get fibre! In a fibre area too.

That is pretty much what I said earlier. At the end of the day it isn't the OPs house , so if the landlord doesn't want holes drilling or external ducting on the walls etc, they should really sort it out and come up with a solution. At least they have currently got a tenant who is willing to help them. I am guessing at some stage houses in fibre areas will be forced to get fibre, or the copper will cease to work ?

We had conduit installed in walls and ceilings of a new built for fibre and it was the best part of 10 metres in length with multiple bends. Chrous still manged to get the fibre into it, although a hole had to be cut though the wall where they couldn't get the fibre around one final bend. I think 2 cat cables where put in it to pull the fibre though, although I can't totally recall the details of that now.

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#2232307 7-May-2019 15:59

openmedia:

wratterus:

openmedia:

Landlord has required we keep the Copper connection in place.

Say what? 😶

In case future tenants want to go back to xDSL or want a traditional phone line - I kid you not.

I'm fairly sure moving back to DSL won't be an option. Once you have migrated to UFB in a Chorus area then Chorus typically remove the copper lead-in and won't allow RSPs to order DSL services at the address. If future tenants wanted Voice only then Spark (and I am sure other RSPs) offer Voice only services where the ethernet port on the ONT is disabled and voice is delivered from the ATA in the ONT. When I was at Spark and we built that as a product I said "no one will order voice only that's crazy" and I was wrong since as soon as the product launched orders went in.

I suspect sometime in the future once the LFCs and CFH get to a critical mass on UFB and the number of DSL connections falls below a number that is sustainable Chorus will be pushing to switch off the copper network and force the hand.

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#2232352 7-May-2019 17:02

BarTender:

openmedia:

wratterus:

openmedia:

Landlord has required we keep the Copper connection in place.

Say what? 😶

In case future tenants want to go back to xDSL or want a traditional phone line - I kid you not.

I'm fairly sure moving back to DSL won't be an option. Once you have migrated to UFB in a Chorus area then Chorus typically remove the copper lead-in and won't allow RSPs to order DSL services at the address. If future tenants wanted Voice only then Spark (and I am sure other RSPs) offer Voice only services where the ethernet port on the ONT is disabled and voice is delivered from the ATA in the ONT. When I was at Spark and we built that as a product I said "no one will order voice only that's crazy" and I was wrong since as soon as the product launched orders went in.

I suspect sometime in the future once the LFCs and CFH get to a critical mass on UFB and the number of DSL connections falls below a number that is sustainable Chorus will be pushing to switch off the copper network and force the hand.

pretty sure you have to ask to have copper removed (though i dont know why) it should be default to have it removed or have to ask to keep it.

@chorusnz could you confirm please

mattwnz

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#2232359 7-May-2019 17:10

BarTender:

When I was at Spark and we built that as a product I said "no one will order voice only that's crazy" and I was wrong since as soon as the product launched orders went in.

There would be a lot of elderly for example, who don't want to even know about the internet, who would go for this. Although not sure if the monthly price would be cheaper or the same as it is for just a copper phone connection. At some stage they won't want to be supporting a few copper connections in a fibre area, as that will be costly to do and maintain.

Aren't fibre installs currently free, but only for a limited period of time? If the landlord knew that they may have to pay for a connection inf the future, and it is currently free, that may make a difference to them to get it sorted now.

cyril7

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#2232412 7-May-2019 19:10

As for only ordering voice, really? with ubiquitous mobile the only folk who want a land line would be in there 70s plus and probably not likely tenants for your property assuming it's a family home.

And before you accuse me of agisim think again, not far from that age group myself.

Cyril

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#2232425 7-May-2019 19:35

how many lights are in the garage if they are leds you might be able to unclip and see whats up there.

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#2232453 7-May-2019 20:31

You could install a patch port intercepting the cable from ETP to Patch Panel, so you can just fit a short patch lead if copper needed in future. Then run an extension cord to power ONT, and once Chorus tech has gone, use PoE + splitter to power the ONT. I think the new ONTs are 12V?

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sparkz25

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#2232462 7-May-2019 21:03

Can you get into the ceiling?

Can you get a look at the hole where the Cable goes down the internal wall?

If so what size is the hole?

My picking is that the hole will be 25mm and you should be able to pull a low smoke up or down the hole and a new cat 6 or a hybrid and pull that over to the Cabinet.

But upon looking at the pic again you have a brick cavity! use that!

There would be a 30-50mm gap there that you can easily pull a cable and a low smoke down or even a hybrid.

Chorusnz

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#2232681 8-May-2019 09:41

Jase2985:

pretty sure you have to ask to have copper removed (though i dont know why) it should be default to have it removed or have to ask to keep it.

@chorusnz could you confirm please

The only time the copper cable is actually removed is if its aerial. For underground when we say 'remove' really its just disconnected at the ETP.

If you specify what you want when ordering then come install we will remove or leave the copper as requested.

If you don't specify we will usually default to removal, as part of our install requirement is to integrate the house wiring to allow voice provisioning from the ONT. Having the copper lead in connected when using the house wiring to supply voice from the ONT causes issues and so we like to remove it.

mattwnz:

There would be a lot of elderly for example, who don't want to even know about the internet, who would go for this. Although not sure if the monthly price would be cheaper or the same as it is for just a copper phone connection. At some stage they won't want to be supporting a few copper connections in a fibre area, as that will be costly to do and maintain.

Aren't fibre installs currently free, but only for a limited period of time? If the landlord knew that they may have to pay for a connection inf the future, and it is currently free, that may make a difference to them to get it sorted now.

Fibre installs are currently free for those in UFB areas and the timeframe for these free installs has been extended a few times. However at some point this may no longer be the case so its definitely in everyone's best interest to get connected sooner rather than later.

coffeebaron:

You could install a patch port intercepting the cable from ETP to Patch Panel, so you can just fit a short patch lead if copper needed in future. Then run an extension cord to power ONT, and once Chorus tech has gone, use PoE + splitter to power the ONT. I think the new ONTs are 12V?

ONT is indeed 12V

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