[HELP]Terminate water pump service

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145 posts

Master Geek

#1486003 5-Feb-2016 15:34

Thanks for all your feedback.

I think i may go with GRUNDFOS CMB-SP 5-47 Pump.

I will keep you updated.

Have a nice long weekend.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1487009 7-Feb-2016 15:38

Did you ever find out what was causing the slow water flow issue from that 1 tap? Did the loan pump fix that problem?

YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1487220 7-Feb-2016 22:36

No, i haven't find the solution yet, and the loan pump even got worse than my old one. I will see how it look like with new pump installed next week.

andrewNZ

2487 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#1487261 8-Feb-2016 07:18

YJ: No, i haven't find the solution yet, and the loan pump even got worse than my old one. I will see how it look like with new pump installed next week.

Sounds like the original problem is an airlock or a restricted pipe... Or even more silly, a blocked filter at the tap.

Did you ask them to look at the pump, or did they tell you it might be buggered?

YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1487264 8-Feb-2016 07:39

That was the reason why i want them to look at the pump. they couldn't find the solution and still keep spending time on the pump investigation. And also mentioned the controller got problem and other parts. I called them to stop the investigation as it's not worth to fix it. They did say maybe it's the plumbing issue, and the pump got problems as well. But my pump was working b4 they took away. Now i need a new pump.

I did notice the tap in the kitchen is more slim than the rest of taps in the house with a 3way adapter underneath (for dishwasher, under bench filter and tap). I willl update how it feels with the new pump next week.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1487743 8-Feb-2016 21:28

Stick a pressure gauge on the outlet of the pump - you will soon see if the problem is the pump not outputting enough pressure. Or if the problem is somewhere downstream of the pump.

YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1487836 9-Feb-2016 08:47

yes, that's where i made mistakes, i should't call the pump company b4 find out what's the problems actually are.

I would like to ask people whether it's the reasonable to pay for the bill even without telling me what's wrong with the pump.

They can't even grantee to restore it to the original condition.

With $400 spending, am i asking too much?

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Sidestep

1013 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1487983 9-Feb-2016 12:03

YJ:

yes, that's where i made mistakes, i should't call the pump company b4 find out what's the problems actually are.

I would like to ask people whether it's the reasonable to pay for the bill even without telling me what's wrong with the pump.

They can't even grantee to restore it to the original condition.

With $400 spending, am i asking too much?

Yes pay the bill. Ask them for the actual model of pump they were going to sell you and see if you can find something equivalent - cheaper.

They haven't missed a chance to charge you (more information would make your position clearer) but - as xpd said - the language they used makes me think they're a specialist rather than your 'she'll be right' local plumber who'd just throw in another pump..

The replacement pump “calculated using the performance curves available on the website I sent through to you, and from the information gathered on our initial visit” likely means they've gone to the trouble of sizing a replacement pump based on not only the manufacturer performance curves (which are non restricted 'free flow') but the actual system you have attached.

A 1 micron filter can be very restrictive in a pumped water setup – probably why he looked at that as a potential problem. It would certainly reduce pressure, flow & require a larger pump to get the same water pressure beyond it.

You did call them, agreed to the callout fee, the guy did spend 2 and a half hours inspecting (something?) and installed a loaner pump.

$282 is within reason for: “Carried out service check to pump not turning on until very low pressure. Installed a temporary loan pump and brought pump back to workshop for assessment.”
Initially, as aredwood said, they'd have put a gauge on your pump outlet to see if it was making pressure – and likely found it below spec. - then gone for a look at your plumbing to see if there was a simply fixed issue (blockage) downstream of the pump.

$69.00 for “Workshop assessment of pump quote to be submitted for cost of repairs/replacement.” could also be reasonable. Workshop assessment could include mounting the pump on a test bench, testing the controller, testing the pump, stripping it to find out whether the problem's an internal blockage or just wear.

They can't restore it to original condition because disassembly of the pumphead breaks the oem o-rings, ceramic bearings, gaskets etc that are needed to run the pump.

Small centrifugal pumps do wear out. The first thing you notice is the pump runs for longer & longer periods trying to build pressure. Upstairs showers & restricted outlets loose pressure, things like washing machines fill slower.. Maybe that one tap of yours was just more restricted & the first to show the issue.

The quote for a new pump - a decent pump, sized for your needs, with installation, sounds about right - and she did say “Upon acceptance of this quote, she is happy to amend the invoice for the initial callout as a good will gesture.”

YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1488061 9-Feb-2016 13:47

Sidestep:

YJ:

yes, that's where i made mistakes, i should't call the pump company b4 find out what's the problems actually are.

I would like to ask people whether it's the reasonable to pay for the bill even without telling me what's wrong with the pump.

They can't even grantee to restore it to the original condition.

With $400 spending, am i asking too much?

Yes pay the bill. Ask them for the actual model of pump they were going to sell you and see if you can find something equivalent - cheaper.

I never said i am not going to pay for the bill. I am just not happy with more than $400 spending, I couldn't know what's wrong with my pump, and even they couldn't restore to its original condition.

They haven't missed a chance to charge you (more information would make your position clearer) but - as xpd said - the language they used makes me think they're a specialist rather than your 'she'll be right' local plumber who'd just throw in another pump..

what additional info you actually want to know?

The replacement pump “calculated using the performance curves available on the website I sent through to you, and from the information gathered on our initial visit” likely means they've gone to the trouble of sizing a replacement pump based on not only the manufacturer performance curves (which are non restricted 'free flow') but the actual system you have attached.

A 1 micron filter can be very restrictive in a pumped water setup – probably why he looked at that as a potential problem. It would certainly reduce pressure, flow & require a larger pump to get the same water pressure beyond it.

yes, a 10" 1 micron filter can be produce more than 40lpm which should't have any impact on one particular tap (i just learnt, btw, it's new filter). If i know that from beginning I would't call them.

You did call them, agreed to the callout fee, the guy did spend 2 and a half hours inspecting (something?) and installed a loaner pump.

Do you really need more than 2 hours to inspect on site? The loan pump change/installation was less than 30 minutes.

$282 is within reason for: “Carried out service check to pump not turning on until very low pressure. Installed a temporary loan pump and brought pump back to workshop for assessment.”
Initially, as aredwood said, they'd have put a gauge on your pump outlet to see if it was making pressure – and likely found it below spec. - then gone for a look at your plumbing to see if there was a simply fixed issue (blockage) downstream of the pump.

Before the guy took the pump away, I think as the specialist, would it be nice to inform the rough cost for repair or the new pump price? Then i can make the informative decision on site.

$69.00 for “Workshop assessment of pump quote to be submitted for cost of repairs/replacement.” could also be reasonable. Workshop assessment could include mounting the pump on a test bench, testing the controller, testing the pump, stripping it to find out whether the problem's an internal blockage or just wear.

Yes, it's reasonable to spend one hour to check. But they didn't give me any formal report or quota. And I have been told if i want this kind of information, they have to do further investigation. Regardless what they did, the pump was in working order.

They can't restore it to original condition because disassembly of the pumphead breaks the oem o-rings, ceramic bearings, gaskets etc that are needed to run the pump.

Maybe you are the specialist in this area, but i am not quite sure how it works in this kind of scenario. But I would't think restore to it's original is so demanding with the paid o-ring, seal etc.

Small centrifugal pumps do wear out. The first thing you notice is the pump runs for longer & longer periods trying to build pressure. Upstairs showers & restricted outlets loose pressure, things like washing machines fill slower.. Maybe that one tap of yours was just more restricted & the first to show the issue.

Maybe you are right, I still remain my view, as the pump was in working order when the guy took it away. BTW, the performance of the loan pump is worse than my one, the water flow for that tap didn't improve at all.

The quote for a new pump - a decent pump, sized for your needs, with installation, sounds about right - and she did say “Upon acceptance of this quote, she is happy to amend the invoice for the initial callout as a good will gesture.”

HM series priced from 1324.80 (HM60-06T) to 1896.91(HM90-11T), I would't think they will use any higher model as it's not necessary and also over 2 grand (about 250lpm water flow).

Thanks for your detailed explanation.

The lesson I have learnt so far: DO NOT do any maintenance to your pump, use it until it's completely died and get a new one.

The pump shop (Pendrose) also offers 15% off (retailed price) for all Grundfos pump, and for Auckland wide delivery less than $10.00

MikeAqua

7779 posts

Uber Geek

#1488179 9-Feb-2016 16:29

I think you'll be happy with Grundfos. I've used them in some tough commercial tasks and they have stood up every time.

YJ:

The pump shop (Pendrose) also offers 15% off (retailed price) for all Grundfos pump, and for Auckland wide delivery less than $10.00

Mike

Sidestep

1013 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1488220 9-Feb-2016 17:20

YJ:

Thanks for your detailed explanation.

The lesson I have learnt so far: DO NOT do any maintenance to your pump, use it until it's completely died and get a new one.

The pump shop (Pendrose) also offers 15% off (retailed price) for all Grundfos pump, and for Auckland wide delivery less than $10.00

Yes Grundfos are a good pump brand.

But you DO need to maintain your pump!

Check the pre pump filter regularly, make sure the air intake & cooling fan's free of dust/dirt spiderwebs.
Check there are no leaks dripping water onto your pump or controller.
When you install it, mount a pressure gauge in the line to your house, use a felt pen to mark the cut in & cut out pressures, so you can occasionally pop into the pumphouse and see at a glance if that changes.
Listen to make sure the pump's not cycling or running continuously -if it is, check your pressure tank.

If you've sized it right (and it's not overworked) it should last you 20 years+ Capacitors do fail (& are easy to replace). Controllers sometimes get out of whack.

Apart from that there's not a lot you can do if something goes wrong. If they break it's often cheaper to replace to repair.

MikeAqua

7779 posts

Uber Geek

#1490140 11-Feb-2016 09:12

My Grundfos lives in an open air shed/carport in rental property.

It has never been cleaned or serviced in anyway. It sucks water out of an aquifer 14m down with no pre-filter. It's covered in dust and cobwebs. It's at least 11 years l and never misses a beat. Occasionally the tenant has to bleed off a bit of air from the pressure chamber. Other wise never had any R&M. I'm not advocating neglect, but it goes to show how bullet proof their pumps are.

Mike

Yogi02

238 posts

Master Geek

#1490168 11-Feb-2016 09:36

I play around a bit with pumps and taps as I;m on an old farm with a couple of houses.

I am going to have a stab in the dark and say that a new pump will make no difference what so ever but you ow have to get one.

Based on the fact that all other taps are running ok, It is likely to be something in the tap or tap mixer causing a blockage.

First, unscrew and check the little gauze filter at end of mixer tap!!

Have you called a plumber?

I would try and isolate the issue by turning off water, removing the tap unit and either reattaching another tap to check pressure or attach the mixer tap to another supply (garden tap with right adapter fittings).

This should at least isolate wether it is a supply issue or a tap problem and go on from there.

Good Luck

YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1490238 11-Feb-2016 10:47

Thanks all the feedback.

got my pump installed last night.

You are right @Yogi02, there is no much change in the Kitchen tap, the water flow is still weaker than the rest. Probably 4-5 lpm while the rest are acting as normal (maybe 8-10lpm), didn't really measure it. But i am not bothered to fix it anymore at the moment. Maybe just keep it in mind, and see if it's getting worse.

Sidestep

1013 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1490261 11-Feb-2016 11:26

Yep, just having a local plumber come by might have avoided the stress.

The real problem here's lack of proper communication from the pump company.
They often assume a general knowledge of terminology, sizing, pricing etc. that goes right over the head of most people who just want water to come out of the tap..

It would have been so much better if they'd explained to OP exactly what they were doing, why they needed to do it, why it wasn't worth rebuilding the old pump etc.
As it is he's just been given a bunch of bills without much explanation & feels ripped off..

Would still be interested to know the Model of the failed pump..

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