[HELP]Terminate water pump service

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YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#191463 5-Feb-2016 08:13

This is my first long post, please help.

I called A company to come to my place to do the pump services due to one tap with slow water flow(all the rest taps in the house are ok), and agreed to pay call out fee with one hour free labour.

The service person didn’t turn up at the agreed time due to busy schedule. I called them again and they agreed to send someone else next day morning.

The guy came didn’t really check the pump at the beginning, and focused on my whole house filter as he believed with 1 mircron filter I can only get 30L something per minute where it may cause the water flow problem even he has been told the 3 stage filter is very new. After 2 and half hours inspection he then said maybe something wrong with the plumbing system, and also maybe something wrong with the pump controller. He has to take the pump back to the company to do further inspection, and mentioned I may need a new pump about $1000, as it’s not worth to fix it.

End of that day, I got a $282 with the description as below,

“Carried out service check to pump not turning on until very low pressure. Installed a temporary loan pump and brought pump back to workshop for assessment.”

The next day afternoon, there is another $69.00 bill with the description as below,

“Workshop assessment of pump quote to be submitted for cost of repairs/replacement.”

Until now I haven’t got any formal summary what I need to get my pump work 100%, and worried about the future bill, then called them to stop the service, and would like to get my pump back as it’s still in working order.

The manager said to me I have to personally to get my pump back and returned with their one. And also the pump has been take into pieces, if I want them back I have to pay another hour or more to resemble it, and also the washer/seal has been broken, I have to pay for that as well. If I want them to come back to install my old pump, there will be another separate charge for the labour. And my pump could be broken/stop working at anytime from now on.

She said my pump is beyond economical repair and gave me the option to get the new pump priced at $2768.63 with 2 year warranty comparing with there is no warranty with the fixed pump. “Upon acceptance of this quote, she is happy to amend the invoice for the initial callout as a good will gesture.”

Until now, there are 3 hours and half has been spend on my pump, and still didn’t have any other options rather than get a new one. What I would like to do now,

Can I get my pump back to the old status which is still in working order?

Do I have to pay for the resemble fee?

Is it reasonable that I have to pay for the parts (washer/seal) they broken it.

Do I really have to disconnect their pump to return it on my own, or they can come back to do it?

Can I ask them to list the detailed parts I need to fix my pump and detailed model of the new pump?

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301 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1485577 5-Feb-2016 08:47

Yes you can ask them to restore the old pump.

Yes you will have to pay the re-assembly fee.

Yes it's reasonable that you have to pay for the part - seals often have to be broken to be taken off.

They can come back and do it, but they will charge for it, which is reasonable.

Yes you can ask for parts and new model details.

With that out of the way - I'm a little curious. You say only 1 tap has low flow, yet the others are ok? Is this tap significantly higher than the others? Have you looked to see why that tap is slow and the others are not (Eg: A blockage of some sort?).

$2700 seems very expensive for a new pump - I think you're getting ripped off there - unless your pump is a super duper over the top fancy one.

SaltyNZ

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#1485579 5-Feb-2016 08:51

Depends on the pump. When our last one failed (siezed) we were offered the option of a cheap brand at $500 which had a 1 year warranty and they said would last probably 5 years, or a $1500 Grundfos that had a 2 year warranty and they said would probably last more like 15 years. We went for the Grundfos. That said, there's a big difference between even $1500 and $2700.

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YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1485621 5-Feb-2016 09:03

SaltyNZ:

Depends on the pump. When our last one failed (siezed) we were offered the option of a cheap brand at $500 which had a 1 year warranty and they said would last probably 5 years, or a $1500 Grundfos that had a 2 year warranty and they said would probably last more like 15 years. We went for the Grundfos. That said, there's a big difference between even $1500 and $2700.

Thanks.

Do you have anyone to recommend to do the job? free quota or charged?

xpd

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#1485625 5-Feb-2016 09:06

We've been quoted well under $1000 for a pump to allow us to use our tank water again - $2700 seems extremely high.

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1485645 5-Feb-2016 09:21

Jeeves:

Yes you can ask them to restore the old pump.

Yes you will have to pay the re-assembly fee.

Yes it's reasonable that you have to pay for the part - seals often have to be broken to be taken off.

They can come back and do it, but they will charge for it, which is reasonable.

Yes you can ask for parts and new model details.

With that out of the way - I'm a little curious. You say only 1 tap has low flow, yet the others are ok? Is this tap significantly higher than the others? Have you looked to see why that tap is slow and the others are not (Eg: A blockage of some sort?).

$2700 seems very expensive for a new pump - I think you're getting ripped off there - unless your pump is a super duper over the top fancy one.

I did ask them to restore it, but they came back with more time have to spend on it, i am not really happy to pay $400+ to get my pump working as it was. Maybe it's kind of lesson for me in the future.

The kitchen one has low flow with unknown reason yet, it made me thinking it's time to service my pump, i realized that i made wrong decision.

I am fine with the branded pump, but not ready with that amount of money to spend. I will do more investigation then. thanks.

YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1485652 5-Feb-2016 09:25

Can anyone recommend me a good company or someone to do the new pump? it would be much appreciated.

Maybe it's not worth to ask them to resemble it even.

SaltyNZ

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#1485654 5-Feb-2016 09:28

YJ:

SaltyNZ:

Depends on the pump. When our last one failed (siezed) we were offered the option of a cheap brand at $500 which had a 1 year warranty and they said would last probably 5 years, or a $1500 Grundfos that had a 2 year warranty and they said would probably last more like 15 years. We went for the Grundfos. That said, there's a big difference between even $1500 and $2700.

Thanks.

Do you have anyone to recommend to do the job? free quota or charged?

Well, we just called the first local plumber who was available at the time, which happened to be Mr. Walker Plumbers (IIRC) in Warkworth. But we have had no issues with the pump since. I think it's this one. They charged about $35 to look at the old pump, having replaced it with a loaner in the meantime, and about an hour's labour for each swap. It was more than the $0 I preferred to have to spend on water pumps just after Christmas but I couldn't complain about it being unreasonable.

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YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1485679 5-Feb-2016 10:03

Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated.

The response from the company, is it reasonable? PLEASE advise if i should accept it or not.

1. The price to restore my old pump to the original working order including seal.

I am not comfortable giving you this quotation as there is no guarantee that having been reassembled, that the pump will still operate as it was before assessment, due to the amount of failed parts it has. We operate within best practice guidelines and this would not be best practice. It is your own prerogative if you would like to collect the pump and see if another contractor is prepared to do this for you.

2. The quota for the parts and labour I need to make my pump working 100% as supposed to be

This price is impossible to give you unless we spend more time assessing the pump, which will incur a labour charge of $69 per hour. This cost would be payable regardless of whether we the pump is ultimately able to be fully repair.

3. The detailed new pump model number and price plus the installation cost, if i install my self would be anything cheaper?

The pump that we have specified for your property was calculated using the performance curves available on the website I sent through to you, from the information gathered on our initial visit.

The installation cost was included in the price quoted to you. Obviously, the price to supply a new pump to you will be less. We are not able to supply you with an itemised list of parts required to perform the installation, and recommend against this option unless you are able to have it installed to manufacturers specifications. Failure to do this may result in the warranty being voided. In the event that we need to come and collect our loan pump without installing a new pump for you – there will be labour charges payable for the time spent. (Minimum charge 1 hour)

xpd

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#1485687 5-Feb-2016 10:11

The language in their response makes me think that dealing with consumer items isn't their main bread and butter, especially going off charts on a website - a good plumber/pump agent would know off the top of their head what would be good for your situation.

I'd probably throw them the minimum payment and go elsewhere.

Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

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MikeAqua

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Uber Geek

#1485692 5-Feb-2016 10:16

$2,700 seems very expensive for a pump for a domestic water supply.

Do you have to push the water a long way uphill or something like that?

I fitted a small Grundfos pump that cost <$1,000 to supply my house and irrigate about 1 acre of (flat land).

13 years later it is still running just fine.

Mike

YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1485757 5-Feb-2016 11:02

Thanks Gavin,

yeah, that's the reason i am looking for recommendations. This time seems i made the right judgement.

maybe it's the time to take their pump back and get my disassembled pump back.

YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1485764 5-Feb-2016 11:08

Hi Mike,

it's about 40 meters long from pump to the far end of the house with the maximum drop of 8 meters, nearly no irrigation for the garden or lawn. The land is a little bit slopy, i would guess less than 15 degree.

Sidestep

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#1485845 5-Feb-2016 12:11

Something doesn't sound quite right.. Can you tell us the Make and Model of the previous pump - and the Make/Model of the $2700 pump they propose to replace it with?

Do you have a seperate pressure tank in the system? Is that also being replaced?

YJ

145 posts

Master Geek

#1485878 5-Feb-2016 12:56

Sidestep:

Something doesn't sound quite right.. Can you tell us the Make and Model of the previous pump - and the Make/Model of the $2700 pump they propose to replace it with?

Do you have a seperate pressure tank in the system? Is that also being replaced?

The model i have that is Davey, kind of with 4 digital number without series name, with little 2L OEM pressure tank above the pump.

The lady didn't tell me the model they are going to replaced and doesn't want to. She only mentioned Davey HM series.

She didn't give me the summary what's wrong with my pump, she said the guy told her the controller is not working, and other parts as well and it's not worth to fix it.

If i want to know everything they have to inspect more which involved more labor. They already spent 3 and half hours and i don't want them to continue to do it. As it's over $400 now. you can see her reply from previous comments.

Sidestep

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#1485927 5-Feb-2016 14:04

YJ:

The model i have that is Davey, kind of with 4 digital number without series name, with little 2L OEM pressure tank above the pump.

The lady didn't tell me the model they are going to replaced and doesn't want to. She only mentioned Davey HM series.

She didn't give me the summary what's wrong with my pump, she said the guy told her the controller is not working, and other parts as well and it's not worth to fix it.

If i want to know everything they have to inspect more which involved more labor. They already spent 3 and half hours and i don't want them to continue to do it. As it's over $400 now. you can see her reply from previous comments.

Davey (and Grundfos as mentioned above) are decent brand name pumps.
Davey's Australian, Grundfos Danish, they're both common in NZ and are well covered for service & parts.

The HM they're recommending is a 'transfer pump' style (HM=Horizontal Multistage pump unit, the numbers following are litre per minute flow rate at a given head).
So a pump aimed more for volume of supply than head (pressure) of supply.

I'm guessing it's to replace a similar style of pump (would need to know those numbers off your previous pump).
If she's talking one of the largest HM pumps that'll run from a standard 10A plug (like an HM160) her pricing's not too far off. You're looking at $2100-2200 + GST for one of those (that's just the pump)

I have two pumps that have run for 25 years now without needing anything other than normal servicing. One's a Grundfos, one a Davey. Both are kept dry & clean, fed with good water.
Importantly, both are correctly sized for the job they do. A pump that's overworked will fail prematurely. Correct sizing, quality of original build, maintenance and quality of water supply is the key to longevity.

We provide water to two residences and a small commercial business. Have 6 pumps, all Grundfos & Davey's + keep two extra on hand as spares, it's a long way to town.
I fix them as necessary, also help neighbours out with pump rebuilds. They aren't particularly complicated but a rebuild almost always requires (expensive) specialist oem parts.

Sometimes when pulling a pump apart that's failed – I find there are a load of other problems. Eg motors overheated because the controller's failed & it hasn't turned off, the pumphead's filled with silt and there's obvious water damage to the bearings.. A pump like that's only good for parts.

It's possible that's the situation with yours.

I do think you need to get a second opinion though. You could get the numbers off the data plate on your original pump, call a specialist pump/water shop in your area with the details, ask their advice.

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