Washing machines: planned obsolescence, replace every 5 years

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#3426638 20-Oct-2025 11:05

richms:

Always. Cold washing is a myth unless you do not actually get your clothes dirty and they just smell a little bit.

You are doing it wrong

allio

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#3426654 20-Oct-2025 13:26

I went through a lot of top loaders and the experience invariably went like this. Never use hot water because they use so much water that it costs a bloody fortune. Get used to all black clothing having white streaks because the washing liquid/powder doesn't dissolve properly in cold water, despite what the box says. Eventually start noticing little black and dark green flecks on clothes. Do a tub clean cycle with hot water (paying a bloody fortune) and discover that the entire drum was full of disgusting mould. Repeat.

My front loader uses a fraction of the water so I always use warm water, and do a hot (60 or 95) wash if the load benefits from it. It spins at 1400 rpm instead of the useless 800 rpm of the top loader so the clothes dry in half the time. I never have streaks because the washing liquid actually dissolves. Never any mould. I do basically no cleaning maintenance except for leaving the door and dispenser drawer open after the wash and every few months doing a tub clean cycle. My LG machine is about ten years old and still seems basically brand new. I would never go back to a top loader. I get that they can be easier to load and unload if you have mobility issues but otherwise I cannot see a single advantage.

Quinny

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#3426706 20-Oct-2025 14:01

AEG Frontload washer and dryer. Both came with a 5-year warranty. I got the 10kg model as I wore out a standard F&P front load in 2 years, and it was the drum. AEG covers everything as far as I am aware; both units are now 8-10 years old and are still going fabulously. Even have wi-fi app to tell me when the washing is ready to pop in dryer (which is the heat pump model so we use it all the time).

nitro

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#3426777 20-Oct-2025 17:30

Jase2985:

k1w1k1d:

Hey Nitro, what brand of top loader and how long to get drum out?

I have a fisher and paykel, and it takes about 5-10 mins to get the drum out.

same with ours. f&p and quite easy to get the hang of it, after the first time jitters.

johno1234

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#3426785 20-Oct-2025 17:51

mattwnz:

pdh:

One of the stupidities of front loaders is that they only connect to the cold water supply - never to the hot.

Apparently this was mandated by the EU - trying to move everybody onto electrical (instead of gas) hot water.

So, instead of using my 5x more efficient heat-pump generated hot water, the front-loader uses a 19th C resistance element to heat cold water.

I also think that the myth of front loaders being gentle needs debunking. It's new-tech bunkum - lie about a weakness & make it a feature.

Agitating clothes gently in a big vat of warm water - letting the dirt & sand fall to the bottom of the drum - is a lot gentler than making clothes rub over each other in a gritty, barely wet slurry for 20 minutes. That's how you polish semi-precious stones !!

And I have the 20-year-old shirts to prove it ;-)

I wonder if any tests have been done to prove either way. I remember F&Ps top loaders used to be called Gentle Annie which isn't too PC these days LOL. TBH I haven't noticed any difference with wear with top loader and a front loader, and I use both. But prefer the top loader for access plus it connects to my gas hot water which is cheaper to run than the inbuilt heater of the front loader.

The manufacturers do an immense amount of testing, the results of which are likely kept as trade secrets

rhy7s

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#3426895 21-Oct-2025 08:16

richms:

Always. Cold washing is a myth unless you do not actually get your clothes dirty and they just smell a little bit.

https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/how-do-different-washing-machine-cycles-compare-for-cleaning

We tested a front loader at 20°C and 40°C, keeping all other settings the same. Then we repeated the test on a different front loader model.

In both machines, the warm wash removed only 1% more dirt than the cold wash.
One machine used over twice the amount of energy washing at 40°C, as it did at 20°C. The other machine used 20% more energy.

It’s clear that for front loaders, a warm wash really isn’t worth the extra energy consumption for the 1% gain in washing performance. Stick to 20°C washes unless you have towels or sports gear that need a hygienic wash, in which case you will need to wash at least 60°C to kill off bacteria. Alternatively, you can use an antibacterial or antiseptic detergent or pre-treater. You should also run a hot wash once a month to clean your drum.

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johno1234

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#3426897 21-Oct-2025 08:23

Cold water is way gentler on the clothes.

kingdragonfly

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#3426915 21-Oct-2025 10:13

rhy7s:
https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/how-do-different-washing-machine-cycles-compare-for-cleaning

Good article.

In New Zealand, hot water in most buildings, max delivery temperature = 50 °C.

For institutions such as schools, hospitals, care homes, a lower threshold 45 °C

Meanwhile, the storage temperature of hot water (in cylinders) must still reach a minimum of about 60 °C to mitigate risk of Legionella bacteria growth.

gzt

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#3426955 21-Oct-2025 13:15

Consumer: In both machines, the warm wash removed only 1% more dirt than the cold wash. One machine used over twice the amount of energy washing at 40°C, as it did at 20°C. The other machine used 20% more energy. It’s clear that for front loaders, a warm wash really isn’t worth the extra energy consumption for the 1% gain in washing performance. Stick to 20°C washes unless you have towels or sports gear that need a hygienic wash, in which case you will need to wash at least 60°C to kill off bacteria. Alternatively, you can use an antibacterial or antiseptic detergent or pre-treater.

Are they saying 20°C is a cold wash? I'd expect cold tap water to be around ground temperature = 10-15°C. Are these machines automatically heating to 20°C for a 'cold' wash?

KiwiSurfer

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#3426959 21-Oct-2025 13:23

I believe so yes. My Samsung front loader watshes at 20 degrees by default with the option to go up to 40 or 60 (or in some modes, 90). It also has the option not to heat the water at all and just consume cold water as-is. So far most washes I've done has been 20 degrees and works just fine and not too much of an impact on our power bill so far.

Makes me wonder what "Cold" means on other machines that don't explicity state what tempterature they're doing. E.g. I recall from my parents place that their F&P top loader has 'cold, 'warm', 'hot', etc -- what does that actually correspond to I wonder?

nitro

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#3427009 21-Oct-2025 13:56

gzt: Are they saying 20°C is a cold wash? I'd expect cold tap water to be around ground temperature = 10-15°C. Are these machines automatically heating to 20°C for a 'cold' wash?

probably depends on the machine used. bosch has the following temperature options (depending on the washing programme):

cold "*"
20
30
40
60
90

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richms

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#3427022 21-Oct-2025 14:47

A cold wash is 20 degrees, any less than that is less than what the likes of cold power and stuff are designed for.

And I find the removals of grease and fats from things is almost useless unless its a 40 degree wash. Perhaps if I used one of the long cycles it might be better but really I jsut use the short cycle and set it to 40 or 60 and let it heat.

Richard rich.ms

rhy7s

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#3427024 21-Oct-2025 15:03

gzt:
Consumer: In both machines, the warm wash removed only 1% more dirt than the cold wash. One machine used over twice the amount of energy washing at 40°C, as it did at 20°C. The other machine used 20% more energy. It’s clear that for front loaders, a warm wash really isn’t worth the extra energy consumption for the 1% gain in washing performance. Stick to 20°C washes unless you have towels or sports gear that need a hygienic wash, in which case you will need to wash at least 60°C to kill off bacteria. Alternatively, you can use an antibacterial or antiseptic detergent or pre-treater.

Are they saying 20°C is a cold wash? I'd expect cold tap water to be around ground temperature = 10-15°C. Are these machines automatically heating to 20°C for a 'cold' wash?

Depending on the standards body, 15-20°C for "cold", yes. A minor preheat (many machines do this internally) to get in that range gets you to the point that the enzymes are reliably kicking in.

Here's a study showing that extra heat energy beyond that is very much a matter of diminishing returns: https://storage.topten.eu/source/files/EEDAL15_Barbara_Josephy_Cold_Wash.pdf

gzt

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#3427047 21-Oct-2025 17:29

My F&P front load = Cold, 30, 40, 60, 90. For peace of mind I'll have to try a 'cold' wash and see if it's 20. Recently I've been running 40 instead of 60 and things seem ok.

Recently I've switched from Persil powder to Fab powder. The only difference I've noticed is Persil is more forgiving when you forget and leave the finished washing in the machine way way too long. I'm guessing Persil powder has some bacterial growth inhibitor that Fab lacks. As long as we don't forget, it seems good enough for clean work at least.

I haven't looked at the economics of liquid. I always remember it as contributing to unnecessary gunk everywhere, although it's been years since I gave it a good go.

rhy7s

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#3427049 21-Oct-2025 17:40

gzt: My F&P front load = Cold, 30, 40, 60, 90. For peace of mind I'll have to try a 'cold' wash and see if it's 20. Recently I've been running 40 instead of 60 and things seem ok.

Recently I've switched from Persil powder to Fab powder. The only difference I've noticed is Persil is more forgiving when you forget and leave the finished washing in the machine way way too long. I'm guessing Persil powder has some bacterial growth inhibitor that Fab lacks. As long as we don't forget, it seems good enough for clean work at least.

I haven't looked at the economics of liquid. I always remember it as contributing to unnecessary gunk everywhere, although it's been years since I gave it a good go.

Fab doesn't do great in testing https://www.consumer.org.nz/products/laundry-detergents/review

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