At what point does DIY electrical work become illegal?

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Paul1977

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#214854 31-May-2017 16:12

As I home owner, it is my understanding that I am allowed to change light switches, light fitting, and power points etc myself, but at what point does it become a job that you legally need an electrician to do it?

I have a single switch in the bathroom that when turns on both the light and extractor. I would like to change this to either 2 switches or a double switch so I can control the light and extractor individually.

I haven't yet looked behind the switch to see how the two things are wired. But depending on where in the circuit the extractor was wired may mean I need to run additional cable from the roof cavity to the switch position. Or if it is all already behind the switch it may be a lot more straight forward. I will not need to touch the main switchboard (except to turn off the power while I work). At what point in this sort of job does it cross the line of what I am allowed to do myself?

I want to do it myself as some of our wiring is still the old conduit stuff, and for an electrician to work on it I think they are required to replace it. As the home owner I think I get more leeway in that regard. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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Vocus

#1792438 31-May-2017 16:16

IANAL - or a sparky - but as I understand it you're limited to changing "like for like". So replacing a switch with an equivalent switch, OK. Replacing a switch with two switches, not so much.

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Hatch

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#1792443 31-May-2017 16:23

These types of questions can be pretty thorny. One day I might try and read through all of regs and law to make sense of it.

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=196048

Ge0rge

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#1792445 31-May-2017 16:26

She's pretty detailed in here about what you can and can't do, and what you can do before needing to get it certified.

That's the law behind what you can and can't do. I'd be suggesting that you are running a separate circuit if you need to run wiring from the switch to the fan/light, in which case you need a sparky. If you open the switch up and find that there is already two circuits leading into the roof, then technically you are changing "like for like" by swapping a single switch for a double.

At the end of the day, it's your house. If you break the law and nothing happens, then so be it. If you do the wiring, whether you are legally able to or not, and you have a fire - even unrelated - will your insurance pay out if they discover it? Do you want to take that risk for the cost of a qualified and competent tradesman to come and do it properly, and issue you with a code of compliance for piece of mind?

Coil

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#1792451 31-May-2017 16:37

You most likely will find the fan (That would have been added later) is wired from the light base itself.
As an Ex Domestic Sparkie this was very common for people to want to change.
Also note that people usually do this for tennants as they want the fan on when the light is on!

sidefx

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#1792456 31-May-2017 16:47

Argh, complete OT but whenever you're pasting long URLs into geekzone it's worth using a URL shortener ;-)

https://goo.gl/

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#1792461 31-May-2017 16:51

TimA:

You most likely will find the fan (That would have been added later) is wired from the light base itself.
As an Ex Domestic Sparkie this was very common for people to want to change.
Also note that people usually do this for tennants as they want the fan on when the light is on!

Our ensuite is setup with separate switches for the fan and light, but Id prefer the single switch option - the fan switch is setup at the moment so theres about a 2 min delay before it actually comes on, so if youre only popping (almost typed pooping) in and out of it, then it wouldnt kick in anyway...... but SWMBO prefers how it is.

And then tells me off for not running the fan........

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richms

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#1792462 31-May-2017 16:51

If you have old stuff in metal conduits then IMO you should be not allowed to have power connected until it is replaced. Thankfully insurance industry is finally catching onto it and will refuse cover on places with it so people cant get mortgage to buy them, but there are still plenty of houses out there with disintigrating wiring in them which are allowed to have power connected.

Richard rich.ms

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#1792512 31-May-2017 18:09

When I opened some old conduit in our farmhouse the wiring inside was pristine, like the day it was installed. No deterioration at all. This in contrast to the rat-chewed modern stuff that could easily have electrocuted someone.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Bung

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#1792519 31-May-2017 18:20

Paul1977: I want to do it myself as some of our wiring is still the old conduit stuff, and for an electrician to work on it I think they are required to replace it. As the home owner I think I get more leeway in that regard. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As a home owner you are not allowed to work on conduit stuff only TPS. AFAIK electricians go on the actual condition of the circuit regarding replacement although insurance companies usually have a blanket replace all policy.

mdooher

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#1792521 31-May-2017 18:21

richms:

If you have old stuff in metal conduits then IMO you should be not allowed to have power connected until it is replaced. Thankfully insurance industry is finally catching onto it and will refuse cover on places with it so people cant get mortgage to buy them, but there are still plenty of houses out there with disintigrating wiring in them which are allowed to have power connected.

It is actually pretty safe. If it wears through or there is a flashover it is contained inside an earthed metal tube. So no fire and no chance of a shock. I have caused a few small fires in ceilings by cutting through the conduit with a grinder... hey my arm gets sore using a hacksaw.

Matthew

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#1792524 31-May-2017 18:36

sidefx:
Argh, complete OT but whenever you're pasting long URLs into geekzone it's worth using a URL shortener ;-)

https://goo.gl/

Thanks!

Aredwood

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#1792526 31-May-2017 18:48

A lot of those older places only have 6mm2 mains cables,which would have been protected with a 30A pole fuse. Often the pole fuse has been swapped with a 60A one, as the lines companies only have to protect against short circuits.

These houses often now have a 3KW hot water cylinder element and plenty of new loads, meaning that the mains cable is hopelessly overloaded.

Friends rental is like that. You can see the brightness of the lights change as things like the oven and hot water thermostats cycle on and off. The smart meter says that there is only 218V when a few things are switched on.

I'm surprised that more of these houses don't burn down.

Fred99

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#1792584 31-May-2017 20:38

Paul1977:

But depending on where in the circuit the extractor was wired may mean I need to run additional cable from the roof cavity to the switch position.

That's probably the only issue (installing new fixed new cable) that would stuff you in terms of what a competent person is allowed to DIY in your own house under ECP51.

Paul1977

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#1792928 1-Jun-2017 09:54

Bung:

Paul1977: I want to do it myself as some of our wiring is still the old conduit stuff, and for an electrician to work on it I think they are required to replace it. As the home owner I think I get more leeway in that regard. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As a home owner you are not allowed to work on conduit stuff only TPS. AFAIK electricians go on the actual condition of the circuit regarding replacement although insurance companies usually have a blanket replace all policy.

@Bung But you're allowed to do simple like for like replacement of switches or powerpoints still connected to conduit stuff aren't you? I can't find anything that says the switches have to be connected with TPS to do this, all I can find is that like for like replacement is allowed? I have read that you can't relocate a switch or powerpoint unless it is TPS though.

Paul1977

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#1792933 1-Jun-2017 09:59

TimA:

You most likely will find the fan (That would have been added later) is wired from the light base itself.
As an Ex Domestic Sparkie this was very common for people to want to change.
Also note that people usually do this for tennants as they want the fan on when the light is on!

Looks like this is the case, so I'll get a sparky to sort it.

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