2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2797705 19-Oct-2021 15:52

rugrat:

MileHighKiwi:

Its clear the game is a toss up between protecting hospitals and managing the freedom of the majority who are vaccinated.

Some of the vaccinated will need hospital treatment. If they can’t get treatment because hospitals are overloaded….

Irrespective of whether you are vaxxed or not, if ICUs are full of covid patients and you have an unrelated heart attack, you are stuffed..

and so we return to the beginning

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/icu-overload-risks-thousands-more-nz-deaths-model

GV27

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#2797707 19-Oct-2021 16:01

wellygary:

Irrespective of whether you are vaxxed or not, if ICUs are full of covid patients and you have an unrelated heart attack, you are stuffed..

and so we return to the beginning

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/icu-overload-risks-thousands-more-nz-deaths-model

The difference is we are a point now where people have had months to get their first jab, as opposed to when this was a brand new virus against which we had literally no defence against other than staying home.

Frankly, at this stage, it should be something that is considered at triage.

Otherwise 'going back to the beginning' is accepting that this can never end and we're being held to ransom by people who won't engage with one of the highest profile, most readily available vaccination drives in living memory. At some point, that is indefensible.

rugrat

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#2797708 19-Oct-2021 16:03

wellygary:

Irrespective of whether you are vaxxed or not, if ICUs are full of covid patients and you have an unrelated heart attack, you are stuffed..

and so we return to the beginning

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/icu-overload-risks-thousands-more-nz-deaths-model

Agree. That’s why I get a bit rattled when I see words to the effect “let the majority of the vaccinated get back to their freedoms”, seem to be implying once vaccinated no problems with letting COVID spread.

Buster

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#2797712 19-Oct-2021 16:13

GV27:Frankly, at this stage, it should be something that is considered at triage.

I think I read last week that one of the Auckland hospitals was planning to erect Triage Tents in the carpark.

They decide who gets in the door, who can get well at home, who can't be helped.

wellygary

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#2797732 19-Oct-2021 16:23

Buster:

I think I read last week that one of the Auckland hospitals was planning to erect Triage Tents in the carpark.

They decide who gets in the door, who can get well at home, who can't be helped.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure they won't publicly admit if vaccination status will be an element of triage...

GV27

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#2797736 19-Oct-2021 16:29

rugrat:

Agree. That’s why I get a bit rattled when I see words to the effect “let the majority of the vaccinated get back to their freedoms”, seem to be implying once vaccinated no problems with letting COVID spread.

Well what's the end-game with this then? To just be infinitely at L3 because the stragglers, idiots and wellness zealots consistently refuse to engage with the vaccination scheme, or comply with lockdown rules?

Offloading severe financial and social costs onto everyone else so that they can have the run of the place when a mess of their own making lands in their lap isn't sustainable either. So by default, you're going to have to accept that some of these idiots are going to get sick or worse, and it will be no one's fault but their own.

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Oblivian

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#2797738 19-Oct-2021 16:30

That was middlemore

The tent was going up behind the reporter telling us they had released a statement saying it

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/453569/covid-patients-at-middlemore-hospital-will-soon-be-triaged-in-a-tent

MileHighKiwi

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#2797741 19-Oct-2021 16:45

GV27:
rugrat:

Agree. That’s why I get a bit rattled when I see words to the effect “let the majority of the vaccinated get back to their freedoms”, seem to be implying once vaccinated no problems with letting COVID spread.

Well what's the end-game with this then? To just be infinitely at L3 because the stragglers, idiots and wellness zealots consistently refuse to engage with the vaccination scheme, or comply with lockdown rules?

Offloading severe financial and social costs onto everyone else so that they can have the run of the place when a mess of their own making lands in their lap isn't sustainable either. So by default, you're going to have to accept that some of these idiots are going to get sick or worse, and it will be no one's fault but their own.

We could still be here in 2 years because we simply can't vaccine 100% of people. There is no way we will go into an election with the country still locked down in any way. Everyone with half a brain will have shifted to aussie by then.

It's inevitable the health system is going to struggle, may as well do it over summer rather than drag it out till next winter.

MileHighKiwi

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#2797742 19-Oct-2021 16:51

wellygary: and so we return to the beginning

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/icu-overload-risks-thousands-more-nz-deaths-model

We didn't have vaccines in March 2020 when that article was created.

Technofreak

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#2797743 19-Oct-2021 16:52

wellygary:

Buster:

I think I read last week that one of the Auckland hospitals was planning to erect Triage Tents in the carpark.

They decide who gets in the door, who can get well at home, who can't be helped.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure they won't publicly admit if vaccination status will be an element of triage...

A scenario I talked about here, https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=161&topicid=265423&page_no=1906#2795350

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#2797746 19-Oct-2021 17:03

If your fully vaccinated, But weigh 180Kg, with type 2 diabetes. Is covid still gonna smash you?

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tdgeek

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#2797757 19-Oct-2021 18:07

rugrat:

MileHighKiwi:

Its clear the game is a toss up between protecting hospitals and managing the freedom of the majority who are vaccinated.

Some of the vaccinated will need hospital treatment. If they can’t get treatment because hospitals are overloaded….

Vaccination is not 100% protection. From what I read looks like 2% of vaccinated will need hospital assistance, 10% of unvaccinated. Most vaccinated people will only need Oxygen and survive if can get it. If no treatment another story.

Those stats are probably true, but if its only the 10%, that's a gain. Its not like we can lie back and casually wait till they got vaccinated. The race of the virus vs unvaccinated has been compressed by the idiots.

tdgeek

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#2797760 19-Oct-2021 18:17

GV27:

The difference is we are a point now where people have had months to get their first jab, as opposed to when this was a brand new virus against which we had literally no defence against other than staying home.

Frankly, at this stage, it should be something that is considered at triage.

Otherwise 'going back to the beginning' is accepting that this can never end and we're being held to ransom by people who won't engage with one of the highest profile, most readily available vaccination drives in living memory. At some point, that is indefensible.

We rarely agree, but you are 100% right. This isn't a "lets let me take time to evaluate this" regime. The 130k vaccines was apparently great, but only 39k were NEW doses, that's what disappoints me. The rest will be getting the second anyway. They should have made this a FIRST DOSE marathon.

rugrat

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#2797761 19-Oct-2021 18:23

GV27:

So by default, you're going to have to accept that some of these idiots are going to get sick or worse, and it will be no one's fault but their own.

What about the non idiots that get sick and can’t be treated? Is it someone’s own fault if they have a heart attack and can’t be treated in time because the hospital is to busy with the idiots?

If current end game is to let it spread, unless hospitals can cope, a lot of deaths of people that didn’t refuse vaccinations.

tdgeek

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#2797762 19-Oct-2021 18:24

GV27:

Well what's the end-game with this then? To just be infinitely at L3 because the stragglers, idiots and wellness zealots consistently refuse to engage with the vaccination scheme, or comply with lockdown rules?

Offloading severe financial and social costs onto everyone else so that they can have the run of the place when a mess of their own making lands in their lap isn't sustainable either. So by default, you're going to have to accept that some of these idiots are going to get sick or worse, and it will be no one's fault but their own.

100%

I dont like the choices, but at some point, we all need to make one. Its no secret, and while I hear of the disenfranchised, there is no secret, and there is no cost. A millionaire has the same opportunity to get vaxxed as does anyone else. Im white but I have Maori and Islander relations. Locating a vaccine clinic is not an issue

The issue now is where do we draw the line? We can wait. Some may miss out, but are any locked out? I dunno, but I dont think so.

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