2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2516921 3-Jul-2020 18:05

mattwnz:

I can't understand why we aren't requiring people are Covid free before boarding the plane to come to NZ, to minimise the risk of it coming into NZ. Or fining airlines for every COVID case they bring in, so they can take action to make sure that people flying are well. Why should tax payers currently be carrying this cost?

At the moment, jamming international planes full of passengers , where an increasing percentage will have COVID, is just increasing the risk for NZ, and increasing the risk that it will breach the border. There is no downside for airlines currently from what I can see.

NZ often seem to close the barn door, after the horse has already bolted. We didn't move to managed isolation until we were well into level 4, despite self isolation being such a failure.

when will people realise that even if they tested positive they are still coming home, only NZ citizens and residents are flying to NZ and entering the country and the government cant stop them . it is why we have strict 14 day isolation, it would be much easier to stop anyone coming in but we cant.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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#2516923 3-Jul-2020 18:09

Dingbatt:

What is “safe” though?

No Covid19 anywhere in the world?

Signs of the pandemic burning out?

No known cases in a particular country?

Widespread deployment of a vaccine?

Herd immunity (if even possible) in a particular country?

I don’t believe any such definition (except possibly the first one) that has been developed by NZ decision makers.

Safe is NZ. Highly likely that no people in the community has it. AUS, who many here expounded how good it was, needs to get to that. If they locked borders, some states might be valid. Pacific is valid if they want to.

ORRRR bring infected tourists. The 20 odd cases we imported would be in bars, bungy jumps, hotels, tourist buses, then it spreads. While internally we can manage that, tourism then stops as NZ has cases in Queenstown, Auckland, Rotovegas etc. We gained nothing. The few dollars we took in got sucked up by virus detection costs, and Kiwis are now in OZ spending up, no good to us, plus they ae now miffed they are stuck in 14 days when they get home at their cost. $300 x 14 days. No one was a winner. Thats what I see happening, and while its just my best guess, it seems pretty likely.

You can say that these cases come from USA, India and Pakistan thats correct. OZ is a risk, they have 10% CT well before the VIC outbreaks occurred. Now the VIC outbreaks are mainly CT. State border control there is poor

Its not as though we shun tourists, we ALL want them pouring in here, but right now, there doesn't seem to be any location to get them from. Thats not NZ's fault. OR we take a gamble and see what happens. I think we have enough proof, what happens. No tourism right now is where we are stuck, there is no viable option.

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#2516925 3-Jul-2020 18:13

vexxxboy:

when will people realise that even if they tested positive they are still coming home, only NZ citizens and residents are flying to NZ and entering the country and the government cant stop them . it is why we have strict 14 day isolation, it would be much easier to stop anyone coming in but we cant.

Agree, it would be but we cant, but it works. It would work for tourists too but who wants to come here, wait 14 days at their cost? No one. I get miffed that some feel that opening bubbles is an option, right now it isnt.

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#2516929 3-Jul-2020 18:24

mattwnz:

Yes, quick tests at the airport are not that accurate, and these quick tests would only filter out a certain percentage, but guess they are still better than nothing to reduce the numbers and risk to NZ. But one way to do it, would be for the person traveling to prepare to travel for two weeks prior to traveling. eg self isoalting, and getting a covid test and doctors certificate first after a covid test. I think this is essential for COVID hotspots like India, Pakistan, UK, US etc, where most of our cases are coming from .

At the moment, all the cost is on the NZ tax payer as they come in, and there is little mitigation prior to this for that traveler. Some airlines may require now passengers to wear masks, but that is only minimizing the spread between passengers who may have it. But the airlines need to reduce the risk of. But I can't see it happening because it is too much work and cost for them to manage, and it outweighs the cost of the flight.

My point is that we need to reduce the risk of the virus getting to our border, not that this will stop every single case. The numbers are only going to increase due to the spread, and so is the risk. I think what has happened in Oz with their hotels, and the security guards, just show how easily the border can be breached by the virus. They also now apparently have a superspreader spreading the virus.

Just wait for a new local case, and guessing there will be a big witchhunt from the media, who have been highlighting problems with our managed isolation facilities for a while. I think we can thank thr media that the managed isolation system has tightened up. But when humans are involved, there can still sometimes be holes.

Ok, that's better, you are ok with minimising risk. I agree, thats all we can do. We cant rely on voluntary self isolating offshore, nor can we rely on temp test etc. What we have now I rely on. Its IN NZ, its controlled by NZ and after the tightening up, we are keeping them out of the community. Its working. If by human error one to two get out we can stamp on them, thats risk no one can avoid.

Yep there will always be holes with humans involved. Cannot mitigate that unless its 28 days and lock and key. IMHO what we have here now is as tight as one can hope. We used to have many daily cases and many clusters, two of which spread NZ wide (wedding and meat meeting) Now, if we got a random case or two, we have better capability now, yet vastly less people to have to manage/contact trace.

IMHO its as good as it gets here, at least we can control that.We cant do anything for a Kiwi family in Mumbai flying out next week.

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#2516986 3-Jul-2020 19:30

Dingbatt:
MikeB4:

Some in media like Hoskings are pushing for the border to open for pure selfish reasons and will then smugly condemn the government for opening the border.

Please tell us what these “selfish reasons” are Mike.

He is paid large amounts of money to be controversial. Q.e.d.

It doesn't matter what he says, so long as it's anti-government. The more outrageous the better. Kind of like Simon Bridges or Todd Muller, but without the rationality constraint.
I.e. like David Seymour.

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#2516991 3-Jul-2020 19:46

mattwnz: I think this is essential for COVID hotspots like India, Pakistan, UK, US etc, where most of our cases are coming from .

Pakistan, where 30% of their commercial pilots are flying with fake credentials. How much do you think a fake quarantine certificate would cost there?

Any time you want something done overseas, you ultimately have to trust that it's done properly, because you can't enforce it. You can make rules about what you want done, but then you have to somehow monitor that it is being done. And of course the bad guys will go out of their way to make that difficult to impossible. Think about the nuclear weapons monitoring in Iran.

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Dingbatt

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#2517044 3-Jul-2020 20:23

frankv:
Dingbatt:

Please tell us what these “selfish reasons” are Mike.

He is paid large amounts of money to be controversial. Q.e.d.

It doesn't matter what he says, so long as it's anti-government. The more outrageous the better. Kind of like Simon Bridges or Todd Muller, but without the rationality constraint.
I.e. like David Seymour.

Thanks Mike.

Oh you’re not Mike.

Are you his spokesperson?

Edit: Just to clarify, I was asking MikeB4 what he believed were Mike Hosking’s selfish reasons. Hosking is hardly a “shock jock” so outrageous doesn’t really seem accurate.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

rugrat

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#2517049 3-Jul-2020 20:50

I feel safe in NZ. May the boarder stay closed to any country that has CT.
Don’t understand why some say it’s the end of the economy with boarder closed.
If long term surely we would be a good place to produce things as can work without social distancing etc. There must be efficiencies gains with that.

From a tourism NZ page,

Tourism in New Zealand comprises an important sector of the national economy – it directly contributed NZ$16.2 billion (or 5.8%) of the country's GDP in the year ended March 2019.“

So tourism is under 10% of the economy and to some people the country is better off with having the virus then losing Tourism.
With the virus a ptotential 90% of the rest of the economy suffers. Our exports are still good.

Safe to open boarder with country with no CT, fast reliable test or effective treatment or vaccine available so don’t understand the question of what’s the plan to open the boarder.

Dingbatt

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#2517052 3-Jul-2020 20:58

Please learn the difference between a “boarder” and a “border”. It’s doing my head in.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2517062 3-Jul-2020 21:52

Dingbatt:

Hosking is hardly a “shock jock” so outrageous doesn’t really seem accurate.

Really? I beg to differ.

rugrat

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#2517081 4-Jul-2020 00:02

Dingbatt:
Please learn the difference between a “boarder” and a “border”. It’s doing my head in.

Bad spelling. Got to criticise when know what meant.

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mattwnz

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#2517084 4-Jul-2020 00:58

frankv:
mattwnz: I think this is essential for COVID hotspots like India, Pakistan, UK, US etc, where most of our cases are coming from .

Pakistan, where 30% of their commercial pilots are flying with fake credentials. How much do you think a fake quarantine certificate would cost there?

Any time you want something done overseas, you ultimately have to trust that it's done properly, because you can't enforce it. You can make rules about what you want done, but then you have to somehow monitor that it is being done. And of course the bad guys will go out of their way to make that difficult to impossible. Think about the nuclear weapons monitoring in Iran.

Yeap totally agree, but I am sure the big money earners in Wellington can use their skills to work out something. So far they seem to have done a good job with working their way through this disaster. You do bring up a good point about trust. We are having to put so much trust in people and countries

tdgeek

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#2517091 4-Jul-2020 07:21

rugrat: I feel safe in NZ. May the boarder stay closed to any country that has CT.
Don’t understand why some say it’s the end of the economy with boarder closed.
If long term surely we would be a good place to produce things as can work without social distancing etc. There must be efficiencies gains with that.

From a tourism NZ page,

Tourism in New Zealand comprises an important sector of the national economy – it directly contributed NZ$16.2 billion (or 5.8%) of the country's GDP in the year ended March 2019.“

So tourism is under 10% of the economy and to some people the country is better off with having the virus then losing Tourism.
With the virus a ptotential 90% of the rest of the economy suffers. Our exports are still good.

Safe to open boarder with country with no CT, fast reliable test or effective treatment or vaccine available so don’t understand the question of what’s the plan to open the boarder.

100%+

We cant fix tourism without breaking other parts of our economy when we get CT here. I have 100% confidence that if we got tourist CT here we can manage it. But as that comes with 14 or 21 day L4 lockdowns on postcodes, towns, places you cannot travel into or out of apart from essentials, the economy will wither, we end up robbing Peter to pay Paul and NZ is no better off. All we can do is work with what we got.

Dingbatt

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#2517095 4-Jul-2020 08:21

rugrat:
Dingbatt:

Please learn the difference between a “boarder” and a “border”. It’s doing my head in.

Bad spelling. Got to criticise when know what meant.

Eye do knot agree.

It was a request not a criticism, as nothing in your post was spelled incorrectly.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2517096 4-Jul-2020 08:21

personal details of active cases stolen

probably someone intentionally emailed the xls file to themself?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12345363

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