2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2520198 9-Jul-2020 16:50

Press release:

Following a second incident in which a person escaped from a managed isolation facility, security is being enhanced, including more police presence onsite, Minister Megan Woods said.

“The actions of some individuals who choose to break the very clear rules to stay within the facilities means that more resourcing is needed to protect other New Zealanders from the risk they may present.

“This behaviour is incredibly disappointing, but we are determined to maintain the freedoms we enjoy as New Zealanders in one of the few countries in the world who are free of community transmission of COVID.

“Air Commodore Darryn Webb and I have been speaking with New Zealand Police about implementing further security measures, and there will now be a permanent police presence at each facility,” Megan Woods said.

By tomorrow there will be one police officer stationed at each facility 24/7.

Extra senior security staff will also be added to each facility and security fencing has been boosted.

“All outdoor physical security around facilities that require fencing, including exercise and smoking areas, will have 6 foot high fencing installed by the end of today,” said Darryn Webb.

Minister Woods has also outlined a strengthened process for managing exemptions, saying early release of returnees will only happen after very careful consideration.

“Currently, people returning to New Zealand must enter managed isolation for 14 days, and return a negative Covid-19 test before they can leave into the community. However there are a small number of exceptional circumstances in which people can apply for an exemption to leave a facility.

“These include medical exemptions which are granted in situations where a person’s serious health needs mean they cannot safely stay in managed isolation. Exemptions for other reasons have been suspended since 16 June while assessment, compliance and enforcement processes have been worked on.

“We need to be sure the processes for allowing people to leave managed isolation early is without any weakness or uncertainty so applicants will need to return a negative Covid-19 test before approval is granted. Those in quarantine facilities would be highly unlikely to be considered low risk in the context of an exemption application.

“A Covid-19 exemption team within MBIE is being established and a strengthened assessment process is being put in place. This will include a health assessment to determine the urgency of the request, and any health risks the applicant may present,” Megan Woods said.

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kingdragonfly

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#2520212 9-Jul-2020 17:20

This doll scares the sh_t out of me.

link

MadEngineer

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#2520219 9-Jul-2020 17:59

So much for the theory that the lockdown will reduce the spread of flu and Colds. If anything I reckon it’s just created a market of more potential hosts and infection rates have exploded.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

cshwone

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#2520272 9-Jul-2020 18:35

MadEngineer: So much for the theory that the lockdown will reduce the spread of flu and Colds. If anything I reckon it’s just created a market of more potential hosts and infection rates have exploded.

Is your reckoning based on a trip on the bus, a review of 20 people in the office or data collated across all DHBs by the MOH with a statistical analysis against previous years🙂

kingdragonfly

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#2520298 9-Jul-2020 19:21

AP News: Health official: Trump rally ‘likely’ source of virus surge

President Donald Trump’s campaign rally in Tulsa in late June that drew thousands of participants and large protests “likely contributed” to a dramatic surge in new coronavirus cases, Tulsa City-County Health Department Director Dr. Bruce Dart said Wednesday.

Tulsa County reported 261 confirmed new cases on Monday, a one-day record high, and another 206 cases on Tuesday.

By comparison, during the week before the June 20 Trump rally, there were 76 cases on Monday and 96 on Tuesday.
...
https://apnews.com/ad96548245e186382225818d8dc416eb

kingdragonfly

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#2520299 9-Jul-2020 19:25

Desperate Measures In Arizona As COVID-19 Overwhelms Hospitals

Rachel Maddow | MSNBC

Dr. Theresa Cullen, public health director for Pima County, Arizona, talks with Rachel Maddow about the shocking rate of increase in new cases in her county and the mitigation measures being taken given limited options and scarce hospital bed space.

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xlinknz

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#2520397 9-Jul-2020 21:49

Here is an interesting article on Al Jazeera titled "How New Zealand's media endangered public health" that I suspect Stuff and NZherald won't republish...

dejadeadnz

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#2520428 9-Jul-2020 22:26

MoH warned blanket ban on compassionate exemptions from isolation is likely to be illegal

This comes from a High Court judge well-known for his legal acumen. And he's of course absolutely right. Any time a piece of legislation provides for a decision-maker with the power to exercise a genuine discretion (it doesn't mean the request must be granted, it just means that the decision-maker must approach the matter with an open mind), they must actually open their mind to the possibility of granting the request. Instead the MoH and the government have decided that they simply won't allow any exemptions because the incompetent and lawless MoH didn't implement their own guidelines of testing people before exemptions were granted. Frankly, in a liberal society it's stunning to me that there's been so little concern and outrage about this.

DS248

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#2520430 9-Jul-2020 22:31

Quarantine absconders - we are not alone on this problem!

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/the-lie-that-led-to-quarantined-travellers-dramatic-escape-c-1156410

Oblivian

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#2520436 9-Jul-2020 22:45

mattwnz:

I think the minister wants over 5000 tests a day. Although it was 3000 yesterday, the day before it appears it was only about 2000, the the day before 1600, then the day before about 1000.

2000 a day with a population of 5 million is tiny, especially when there is a risk of workers in quarantine areas taking it home to family. As well as there being the risk of outlier cases that develop after 14 days.

I wonder if it has anything to do with some doctors charging for consultations and tests when they shouldn't have been. So if one goes in with cold symptoms and they don't order a test, do they still charge for a consultation?

You have overlooked the answer from 3 different posters now.

Remember early on how you had to have been in contact with someone from overseas or had 2-3 symptoms to be valid

It's the same now.

Referrals.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/419774/ministry-of-health-reintroduces-high-risk-criteria-for-covid-19-testing

For the past several weeks, anyone with even a sniffle had been told they can be tested for Covid-19.

But that will no longer be the case unless they fall into a high risk group or their doctor advises it.

The high risk group includes anyone who have recently:

Had contact with an infected person
Been overseas
Had direct contact with someone who had been overseas
Worked on an international aircraft of ship
Worked at an airport or isolation facility
Other people with a cold or flu symptom could still be tested but it will not be a requirement.

jarledb

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#2520447 9-Jul-2020 23:57

MadEngineer: So much for the theory that the lockdown will reduce the spread of flu and Colds. If anything I reckon it’s just created a market of more potential hosts and infection rates have exploded.

Any source?

This is the last report from FluTracking:

The report ending on 5 July is still not available (listed, but the PDF says coming soon).

You can find the reports here

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mattwnz

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#2520488 10-Jul-2020 00:13

Oblivian:

You have overlooked the answer from 3 different posters now.

Remember early on how you had to have been in contact with someone from overseas or had 2-3 symptoms to be valid

It's the same now.

Referrals.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/419774/ministry-of-health-reintroduces-high-risk-criteria-for-covid-19-testing

For the past several weeks, anyone with even a sniffle had been told they can be tested for Covid-19.

But that will no longer be the case unless they fall into a high risk group or their doctor advises it.

The high risk group includes anyone who have recently:

Had contact with an infected person
Been overseas
Had direct contact with someone who had been overseas
Worked on an international aircraft of ship
Worked at an airport or isolation facility
Other people with a cold or flu symptom could still be tested but it will not be a requirement.

If there are already undetected cases in the community then those requirements are irrelevant. Prior to the lockdown we did previously miss positive covid cases, because the requirements to get a test were too strict and people who had the virus didn't get tested because they didn't fulfill the testing requirements. The virus doesn't know these rules. This was a previous hole with the system, that may have been a contributing factor to us having to go into lockdown in the first place, and we risk repeating it if we do miss cases and put them down to a cold or flu in winter.

Likewise virus fragments from other cases could still exist in the community, or introduced from new cases coming in, that people potentially get infected with. China for example believe they got a new outbreak from imported meat from overseas, and there were virus particles on a chopping board at a market that used to cut the meat. The virus is now considered airborne so their is a lot we are still learning about it.

The last sentence leaves it down to the discretion of the doctor. But based on the symptoms they often won't be able to categorically rule it out without a test. The fact that these two recent English cases had symptoms but put it down to an existing health conditions when they weren't tested before they were released from isolation and then tested positive via a community test shows how easy the virus can get through. The point is we need to continue to test test test while we're still have cases coming into NZ. As Trump implied, you can decrease cases by reducing testing. Complacency is what lets the virus spread which is what causes second waves. It is only a matter of time IMO until we get a new case in the community and we have already been warned to expect one. We already know not enough community testing is being done as per the minister's compliant earlier in the week.

We're don't want to repeat our previous mistakes and not detect people who actually sick from it, rather than just a cold. Cases are going to be a lot easier to miss in winter with other winter illnesses. THere is no real downside to testing more because there is capacity and the cost of testing is largely human labour, is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.

Oblivian

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#2520490 10-Jul-2020 00:18

No. The contributing factor is it's a 3:1 infection rate virus that is global.

You didn't make the requirement. I didn't make the requirement.

Beating the 'We're not doing enough' doesn't get anywhere. Just as much as 'We're doing more testing than anyone' does in the US.

You wanted an answer as to why testing numbers are down in NZ. You got it.

mattwnz

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#2520497 10-Jul-2020 00:52

If you listen to the Royal College of GPs medical director today who was interviewed on Newstalk ZB, he said that anyone with symptoms of the flu or cold is eligible for a test. He said that one reason there has been a drop off in testing was complacency due to there not being any community spread (that should be no detected community spread)

The other reason is that because the symptoms of covid are exactly the same as they are for the flu or a cold, and there is a lot of flu and cold around, so doctors have to work out who to test out of those people.

So doctors are a bit confused as to who should be tested in a surveillance sense. I would have expected there to be a significant amount of testing going on as a result of there being so much flu and cold around now, not the reverse.

He said there have been issues with the new definitions since this came out and confusion with GPs. So it isn't a good situation, and it has the potential to cause a big problem if they miss cases, due to the increasing number of people with the flu and colds.

rugrat

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#2520501 10-Jul-2020 02:05

dejadeadnz:

MoH warned blanket ban on compassionate exemptions from isolation is likely to be illegal

This comes from a High Court judge well-known for his legal acumen. And he's of course absolutely right. Any time a piece of legislation provides for a decision-maker with the power to exercise a genuine discretion (it doesn't mean the request must be granted, it just means that the decision-maker must approach the matter with an open mind), they must actually open their mind to the possibility of granting the request. Instead the MoH and the government have decided that they simply won't allow any exemptions because the incompetent and lawless MoH didn't implement their own guidelines of testing people before exemptions were granted. Frankly, in a liberal society it's stunning to me that there's been so little concern and outrage about this.

That's probably because most of us are against people getting exemptions. Even a test doesn't guarantee someone is COVID free. Otherwise you could just let everyone out after their first test if it was as simple as that.

You have an individuals rights, then you have the rights of everyone else to not have their health threatened.

I'm not saying the government isn't breaking the law, but they're doing what most people prefer them to do. People would be more outraged with people getting exemptions for things like funerals. Under level 4 people couldn't have full funerals, it was for the safety of the country.

Just look at what's happening in Australia, we need to be on the more cautious side with this. Some rights are going to have to be put on hold to protect the country.

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