2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2529816 27-Jul-2020 20:35

Fred99:

dejadeadnz:

I don't like his case as much as he does but I happen to think in a society with the rule of law he's more than entitled to resort to the courts. My stance on the MoH is objectively correct, independently validated, and proven by the courts. Bloomfield should have been summarily fired after that decision -- read through the whole thing and see how the whole MoH bureaucracy acted like a bunch of mobsters that had zero interest in obeying the law.

Yet here we are enjoying the benefits bestowed on us regardless of the law - as the right actions were taken (wrt level 3 and 4 lockdown).

I think all of us, despite the post replies, agree on this. @dejadeadnz I take back the "here we go", my apologies. My gripe was some, bitching over the enquiry as if we are run by Castro et al, by those that need to post in the Politics thread

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#2529818 27-Jul-2020 20:38

dejadeadnz:

For the umpteenth time: this is not an inquiry. It's a judicial review. There's a big difference. An inquiry typically involves terms of reference that are softly softly and drawn up by the powers that be. Here, we are talking about the fundamental principle in a society with the rule of law that any citizen can, in good faith, approach the courts and contend that the government of the day has acted beyond the powers granted to it by the courts. And the courts actually will practice a method where, upon fundamental limitations and derogation of fundamental rights, the government is held to a high standard in seeking to justify it. If the governments have exceeded its powers, the courts can potentially issue coercive remedies.

This has a degree of importance that frankly any responsible thinking adult should be able to grasp.

Understood. As a non lawyer I used the term inquiry as a layman's term. This isnt a legal forum

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#2529833 27-Jul-2020 21:24

Interesting summary on isolation/quarantine from CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isolation.html

Concentrations of SARS-CoV-2 RNA measured in upper respiratory specimens decline after onset of symptoms (CDC, unpublished data, 2020; Midgley et al., 2020; Young et al., 2020; Zou et al., 2020; Wölfel et al., 2020; van Kampen et al., 2020).
The likelihood of recovering replication-competent virus also declines after onset of symptoms. For patients with mild to moderate COVID-19, replication-competent virus has not been recovered after 10 days following symptom onset (CDC, unpublished data, 2020; Wölfel et al., 2020; Arons et al., 2020; Bullard et al., 2020; Lu et al., 2020; personal communication with Young et al., 2020; Korea CDC, 2020). Recovery of replication-competent virus between 10 and 20 days after symptom onset has been documented in some persons with severe COVID-19 that, in some cases, was complicated by immunocompromised state (van Kampen et al., 2020). However, in this series of patients, it was estimated that 88% and 95% of their specimens no longer yielded replication-competent virus after 10 and 15 days, respectively, following symptom onset.
A large contact tracing study demonstrated that high-risk household and hospital contacts did not develop infection if their exposure to a case patient started 6 days or more after the case patient’s illness onset (Cheng et al., 2020).
Although replication-competent virus was not isolated 3 weeks after symptom onset, recovered patients can continue to have SARS-CoV-2 RNA detected in their upper respiratory specimens for up to 12 weeks (Korea CDC, 2020; Li et al., 2020; Xiao et al, 2020). Investigation of 285 “persistently positive” persons, which included 126 persons who had developed recurrent symptoms, found no secondary infections among 790 contacts attributable to contact with these case patients. Efforts to isolate replication-competent virus from 108 of these case patients were unsuccessful (Korea CDC, 2020).
Specimens from patients who recovered from an initial COVID-19 illness and subsequently developed new symptoms and retested positive by RT-PCR did not have replication-competent virus detected (Korea CDC, 2020; Lu et al., 2020). The risk of reinfection may be lower in the first 3 months after initial infection, based on limited evidence from another betacoronavirus (HCoV-OC43), the genus to which SARS-CoV-2 belongs (Kiyuka et al, 2018).
Currently, 6 months after the emergence of SARS-CoV-2, there have been no confirmed cases of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection. However, the number of areas where sustained infection pressure has been maintained, and therefore reinfections would be most likely observed, remains limited.
Serologic or other correlates of immunity have not yet been established.

There are some caveats listed (visit link to see).

This is all pretty good news WRT to the quarantine policies NZ has implemented. We can hopefully beat this. Item 7 in the chart (re immunity) and item 6 (re no confirmed cases of reinfection) aren't conflicting, immunity from recovered infection seems very likely, duration of immunity and measuring it by serology testing etc - isn't easy. The Phase III vaccine trials will provide data.

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#2529838 27-Jul-2020 21:38

GV27:

freitasm:

"Vietnam evacuates 80,000 tourists amid new Covid-19 cases in Danang"

Damn, Vietnam was the other success story with Covid19. That's not good.

oh dear now Vietnam. we mustn't be complacent

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#2529843 27-Jul-2020 21:59

I was worried for them when they opened up to tourists with no quarantine. Looks like it may have been a bad call.

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#2529888 28-Jul-2020 07:13

Probably a good time to buy some disposable face masks. If NZ does have a new cluster somewhere masks will sell out quicker than loo paper!

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#2529897 28-Jul-2020 08:28

KrazyKid: I was worried for them when they opened up to tourists with no quarantine. Looks like it may have been a bad call.

That's an understatement.

The risk of a tourist being infectious on arrival is increasing as global active case numbers escalate - so there's good reason to strengthen border quarantine controls - not weaken them.

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#2529901 28-Jul-2020 08:44

Similar to the brownie points work opening Spain up for britts - I snidely suggested that was likely to let them have their pre booked summer holidays rather than peeve many of the nation off.

Now there's an increase in cases. And they all have a 2 week isolation to factor in on return whether they like it or not.

Oblivian

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#2529903 28-Jul-2020 08:46

2 Week additional extension to stop the flow inbound.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12351415

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#2529911 28-Jul-2020 09:08

There are up to date stats on daily arrivals/departures by air here:

https://www.customs.govt.nz/covid-19/more-information/passenger-statistics/

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#2529997 28-Jul-2020 11:04

dejadeadnz:
tdgeek:

I dont see anyone here having an issue with the enquiry. I think it's important. My issue is the politicising by some as if its a dictatorship now, what next. I have no issue if there are legal issues, its a circumstance that is not just another problem. If the Govt made a choice or choices that crossed legal line and it was for the betterment of us, but a fault, that can be sought out by the enquiry. Sort the Govt or sort the law. Time was of the essence and there was none. But for some to see it as a dictatorship ignoring the law, doesn't sit with me.

For the umpteenth time: this is not an inquiry. It's a judicial review. There's a big difference. An inquiry typically involves terms of reference that are softly softly and drawn up by the powers that be. Here, we are talking about the fundamental principle in a society with the rule of law that any citizen can, in good faith, approach the courts and contend that the government of the day has acted beyond the powers granted to it by the courts. And the courts actually will practice a method where, upon fundamental limitations and derogation of fundamental rights, the government is held to a high standard in seeking to justify it. If the governments have exceeded its powers, the courts can potentially issue coercive remedies.

This has a degree of importance that frankly any responsible thinking adult should be able to grasp.

>>beyond the powers granted to it by the courts.
Wow - This statement of yours is so badly Wrong.
It needs to be corrected.
We don't live in a police state(where your statement would be true)

Legislation grants the NZ Government its powers - NOT Courts.
The Courts only offer their Opinion(enforcing the wording/intent of the Legistration)when there is a dispute.

It is not the Courts role to 'create or change' law - that not their remit/role. (Unless we live in a police state)

The powers of the Government are granted by the Legislation/laws which the parties vote in, - in a Democracy.

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#2530006 28-Jul-2020 11:20

Interesting to see there's still quite the exodus going out from NZ still.

One would hope not holidayers taking a jaunt and the makeup is explained by expiring visas and departing seasonal workers (as seen by start of Jul)

Oblivian

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#2530060 28-Jul-2020 13:23

+1 today in managed

Flu/Cold report rates are 1/3 normal. So the lower rates are understandable. (no matter how everyone thinks there aren't enough and should be more.. no need to re-affirm.)

And if you want to reassure those freaking out at the idea of a nose swab who look to be dodging it and ignoring the sick feelings..

Bloomfield said it was good to see the number of people being tested in the community had increased over the last week.

More than 1100 tests were processed yesterday, with 872 in the community.

Bloomfield said the introduction of a throat-swab test had increased uptake.

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#2530078 28-Jul-2020 13:36

Was interested to compare our testing rate to Taiwan (who i think are in a similar position to us, but are (IMHO) the gold standard).

We do more testing per 1000 and always since late march - this fact gives me some comfort, but personally would not be upset with more testing still here...

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#2530085 28-Jul-2020 13:46

Oblivian:

Interesting to see there's still quite the exodus going out from NZ still.

One would hope not holidayers taking a jaunt and the makeup is explained by expiring visas and departing seasonal workers (as seen by start of Jul)

You can break them down by NZ passports and others on the Stats data portal,

Under travel>> border crossings-departures >> NZ/other passport

https://www.stats.govt.nz/experimental/covid-19-data-portal

its about 2/3 O/s passports 1/3 NZ...

I'm guessing a big chunk of the NZers returning (esp from OZ) will be for life events, deaths , births of relatives etc, - and they are likely to them return back overseas,

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