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Fred99

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#230307 18-Feb-2018 08:05
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This story has been in the news.

 

Press release from the American Thoracic Society here.  It's a pretty serious finding in my opinion.

 

They suggest that exposure to things like Quaternary Ammonium Compounds in cleaning products (ie as are in disinfectant solutions and "germ killing" sprays) could be particularly bad, but there's no data from which a conclusion about which cleaning products should be avoided (or changes to how they're used) can be made. 


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gzt

gzt
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  #1959782 18-Feb-2018 08:39
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Your link is a pdf with no warning. Personally I always find that a bit annoying. Ideally those would be automatically converted to google docs online pdf viewer links.

 
 
 
 


vexxxboy
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  #1959787 18-Feb-2018 08:51
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that is a pretty vague research test , lots of coulds and mays in the results. From reading it all i found that the chemicals in cleaners may cause respiratory problems which is not a surprise and probably can be prevented by wearing a mask .





Common sense is not as common as you think.


Fred99

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  #1959831 18-Feb-2018 11:07
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vexxxboy:

 

that is a pretty vague research test , lots of coulds and mays in the results. From reading it all i found that the chemicals in cleaners may cause respiratory problems which is not a surprise and probably can be prevented by wearing a mask .

 

 

Of course it's a vague test - but the data is very strong showing such strong correlation is very indicative of a real issue, further research is urgently needed to find out what it is.

 

Lung damage equivalent to that from smoking 20 cigarettes a day for home or workplace exposure is very serious indeed.

 

I'm not sure if a conclusion could be made that wearing a filter type mask would make any difference.  They first need to find out which chemicals are implicated - for example a simple filter mask might reduce exposure to atomised low volatile ingredients like quats, but probably not for chlorine fumes and volatile organic compounds like alcohols and glycol ethers used in many surface cleaning sprays etc.  Some of those glycol ethers for example have been banned in the past due to suspected carcinogenicity, and then later cleared for general use.

 

If the reduction in lung function is as hypothesised - damage caused by inflammatory response to constant low-level exposure, then it's probably a pretty good bet that there'll be correlations with other diseases (cancers CVD etc) if they look.

 

The vagueness of the data also doesn't allow you to safely conclude that using for example a bucket of water with a bit of soap or detergent with a mop or microfibre cloth is any safer, but it's probably a good guess that it is.  OTOH it might be inhalation of dust from vacuum cleaning or using feather dusters that's causing the issues.


afe66
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  #1959832 18-Feb-2018 11:07
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Most dangerous product in most people's houses are the dishwashing tablets.

Can happily dissolve/scar a small child's eosophagus.

Child then get anaesthetics every six months for years to repeatedly dilate the narrowing.

Don't leave them under sink. Leave in laundry high on a shelf behind kiddy fence.

Fred99

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  #1959835 18-Feb-2018 11:15
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afe66: Most dangerous product in most people's houses are the dishwashing tablets.

Can happily dissolve/scar a small child's eosophagus.

Child then get anaesthetics every six months for years to repeatedly dilate the narrowing.

Don't leave them under sink. Leave in laundry high on a shelf behind kiddy fence.

 

They changed formulation in domestic dishwash machine formulations in 2007, from using formulations consisting of mainly highly caustic sodium metasilicate.  The sodium silicate listed as an ingredient is I believe sodium disilicate, and in lower levels.  There may also be other dangerous ingredients.

 

So yes - still keep them out of reach of children, but there are plenty of other equally or more dangerous materials in most homes.


tdgeek
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  #1959836 18-Feb-2018 11:26
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I have a desire to focus on green cleaners, like white vinegar, baking soda, sometimes mixing with some dishwasher liquid. 

 

There a million 1000 uses for white vinegar online although a bit confusing. Mix vinegar and baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and it gives off CO2 and you are left with salty water. 

 

You can pay $10 for a 500ml spraygun of toxic chemical, but its not about the cost, its about a cleaning agent that is not toxic but works well.

 

Being 5% acetic acid, it attacks grease etc unlike normal alkaline basic cleaners, no real need to go toxic to do that. If you can eat vinegar and bicarb well it must be safe

 

Edit

 

For mould or moss, you cannot beat straight white vinegar. 


 
 
 
 


Aredwood
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  #1959847 18-Feb-2018 12:10

I would be more concerned about those automatic insect killers. That spray a burst of fly spray into the room every 20 minutes or so. They claim to have natural ingredients, but how could they not be poisonous if they are able to kill flies.





Fred99

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  #1960057 18-Feb-2018 20:42
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Aredwood: I would be more concerned about those automatic insect killers. That spray a burst of fly spray into the room every 20 minutes or so. They claim to have natural ingredients, but how could they not be poisonous if they are able to kill flies.

 

Not really on topic.  They have been subject to intense scrutiny for many years. This study shows something new and somewhat unexpected - at least in the severity of impairment to lung function.


MikeAqua
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  #1960261 19-Feb-2018 11:40
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Aredwood: I would be more concerned about those automatic insect killers. That spray a burst of fly spray into the room every 20 minutes or so. They claim to have natural ingredients, but how could they not be poisonous if they are able to kill flies.

 

The sue of the term natural ingredient always cracks me up.

 

Natural does not equal safe. There are many, many naturally occurring toxins.

 

In the case of the bug sprayer it's likely to be pyrethrum. It's a naturally occurring insecticide (i.e. toxin). 

 

Probably synthesised for the spray units though.  Which raises another question - if it's synthesised, is it natural?

 

 





Mike


Fred99

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Rikkitic
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  #1960342 19-Feb-2018 13:29
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So many things to kill us. How is it possible that average life expectancy in the west has doubled since the 1840s? We must be doing something right.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


Starscream122
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  #1960345 19-Feb-2018 13:37
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Aredwood: I would be more concerned about those automatic insect killers. That spray a burst of fly spray into the room every 20 minutes or so. They claim to have natural ingredients, but how could they not be poisonous if they are able to kill flies.
How do you get your speed test result to show as your signature my dude? 


Coil
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  #1960347 19-Feb-2018 13:40
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Fred99:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethrin

 

 

 

 

As a child I used to spray the plants on the orchid with this.


Fred99

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  #1960372 19-Feb-2018 14:11
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Rikkitic:

 

So many things to kill us. How is it possible that average life expectancy in the west has doubled since the 1840s? We must be doing something right.

 

 

Understanding of the processes involved in infectious disease / sanitation and doing something about it, vaccination, and antibiotics.

 

Yet you wouldn't need to look far to find people arguing for untreated/unfiltered "natural" water, anti-vaccers, and the real threat of antibiotic resistance.

 

It's also not necessarily so simple:

 

Human Lifespans Nearly Constant for 2,000 Years

 

When Socrates died at the age of 70 around 399 B.C., he did not die of old age but instead by execution. It is ironic that ancient Greeks lived into their 70s and older, while more than 2,000 years later modern Americans aren't living much longer.

 

 


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