Nissan LEAF - General

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128 posts

Master Geek

#1992139 9-Apr-2018 16:11

robjg63:
daparrot:

The leaf under reports your speed consistently by 10 percent
So most drives think they are doing 100km but are only doing 90

This is true for all cars:
https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/motoring-blog/why-does-my-speedo-overestimate-and-how-do-i-fare-with-a-4kmh-speed-tolerance-this-summer/

In case you don't want to read the whole article....

The most important thing to bear in mind, first and foremost, is that speedometers in most vehicles are designed to overestimate the speed of travel.

AA Motoring Affairs expert Mark Stockdale explains.

“International law has long required modern cars to overstate true speed. The applicable standard for most vehicles sold in NZ is a European standard that specifies that speedometers must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle’s true speed, or a speed greater than the vehicle’s true speed by an amount of more than 10 percent plus 4 km/h.”

What does this mean in real driving terms?

Well, another way to look at it is, at an indicated speed of 100km/h, the vehicle's true speed must be between 87.3 km/h and 100km/h.

Yes most cars have some form or over reporting but its usually in low single digit percentages but the Leaf Always is 10% more.. ( by design it seems )

happyfunball

287 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1992147 9-Apr-2018 16:23

daparrot:

Yes most cars have some form or over reporting but its usually in low single digit percentages but the Leaf Always is 10% more.. ( by design it seems )

The VW Golf I drove recently (2018 model) and the Leaf both underreported speed by 5km/h judging by the 'your speed' sign on the side of the road.

How are you judging the actual speed vs the speedometer?

daparrot

128 posts

Master Geek

#1992153 9-Apr-2018 16:33

happyfunball:

daparrot:

Yes most cars have some form or over reporting but its usually in low single digit percentages but the Leaf Always is 10% more.. ( by design it seems )

The VW Golf I drove recently (2018 model) and the Leaf both underreported speed by 5km/h judging by the 'your speed' sign on the side of the road.

How are you judging the actual speed vs the speedometer?

Its been mentioned on a number of overseas forums and I have used multiple GPS devices in multiple Leaf's and its pretty much 10%

just google "leaf speedo 10 percent"

happyfunball

287 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1992292 9-Apr-2018 19:30

Maybe the Leaf is adhering to European standards for some reason:

"The European Union requires adherence to UN ECE Regulation 39. It’s a lot of math, but the simple version is that no speedometer can read slower than the actual speed. Ever. On the high side, it’s allowed to read up to 10% above the actual speed plus four or six kilometers per hour, depending on the type of vehicle.

Compare this chart to the first one. The most a speedometer can be off at that same 100 mph (160 kph) is nearly 13 mph. This is why many BMW and Porsche drivers notice their speedometer is off."

From this article: https://www.thrillist.com/cars/your-speedometer-is-wrong-speed-calibration-inaccuracy-in-german-american-and-japanese-cars

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1992426 9-Apr-2018 23:15

And the car manufacturers don't want to get sued because someone unknowingly exceeded the speed limit. Making Speedos over read is the easiest way to avoid that.

afe66

3181 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1992670 10-Apr-2018 12:12

happyfunball:

Maybe the Leaf is adhering to European standards for some reason:

"The European Union requires adherence to UN ECE Regulation 39. It’s a lot of math, but the simple version is that no speedometer can read slower than the actual speed. Ever. On the high side, it’s allowed to read up to 10% above the actual speed plus four or six kilometers per hour, depending on the type of vehicle.

Compare this chart to the first one. The most a speedometer can be off at that same 100 mph (160 kph) is nearly 13 mph. This is why many BMW and Porsche drivers notice their speedometer is off."

From this article: https://www.thrillist.com/cars/your-speedometer-is-wrong-speed-calibration-inaccuracy-in-german-american-and-japanese-cars

This brings me to the question of why speedometers go past 130km/h at all....

FFS my 1.6L ford forus has a speedo that goes to more than 180km/hr and its a wheezy anaemic thing that struggles on the Dunedin hills (unlike my leaf ;-) )

Oh so its so I can use it for track days...yeah right.

Linuxluver

5828 posts

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#1992677 10-Apr-2018 12:17

ascroft:

My question is - can the LEAFs etc keep up with the rest of us at highway speeds. The odd times I have seen them they travel at 90km/hr and hold everybody else up..........

My take is still they are really only for round town - on the open road too many compromises - mainly for other drivers!! :-)

I've had my LEAF to 142kph....and they can happily cruise at 130kph. But you pay a price in heating (like in an ICE car)....and in energy (like in an ICE car) and range is reduced (like in an ICE car).

I drive to the conditions. For around town I'll happily do 107kph on the speedo because many Japanese cars (ICE and EV) under-report the speed.

(I've tested this with a GPS. My daughter's Suzuki Swift is really doing 94 when the speedo says 100. My LEAF is really doing 92kph when the speedo says 100. Other have reported the same for a wide variety of cars. But German cars, like VW, BMW, Audi, Porsche and Mercedes, all tend to report the speed very accurately.)

But out on the highway I may go slower to save energy...though you wouldn't notice. My practice is to pull over when I see a hoon approaching from behind......several hundred meters before they reach me. I don't get in anyone's way. I also tend now to travel at times when traffic is light. Last night I drove from Opotiki to Auckland between 8pm and 1:30am. I wanted to drive non-stop from the new charger at Waihi to my house in Greenlane, but wasn't going to make it doing 100kph....so I drove at 80kph. No one around. It was easy. Didn't slow anyone down......and after midnight is a great time to drive. So quiet..... I hit Redoubt Rd north of Manurewa on 15% and put the boot in for the last 15km. ZOOOOM!!!

I do like to drive my own drive.....the way I want to do it....but I won't impose that on anyone else. I definitely don't want to separate a speeder from a chance to earn the speeding ticket s/he clearly wants very badly. Not my job.

The LEAF can accelerate from a standing start faster than most ICE cars....and can drive much faster than the speed limit if you want to.

Another great thing EVs can do is operate at full power at high altitudes. I drove my LEAF through the Porters Pass last year and it was funny seeing all the badly-tuned ICE gasping for air at the summit. LEAF don't care because the LEAF (or any purely battery EV) doesn't need air.

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Linuxluver

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#1992680 10-Apr-2018 12:24

happyfunball:

Maybe the Leaf is adhering to European standards for some reason:

"The European Union requires adherence to UN ECE Regulation 39. It’s a lot of math, but the simple version is that no speedometer can read slower than the actual speed. Ever. On the high side, it’s allowed to read up to 10% above the actual speed plus four or six kilometers per hour, depending on the type of vehicle.

Compare this chart to the first one. The most a speedometer can be off at that same 100 mph (160 kph) is nearly 13 mph. This is why many BMW and Porsche drivers notice their speedometer is off."

From this article: https://www.thrillist.com/cars/your-speedometer-is-wrong-speed-calibration-inaccuracy-in-german-american-and-japanese-cars

The xception was my '98 Mazda Demio. It would show a slower speed than I was actually doing. I discovered this about 2 weeks after I bought it.

I was driving through Rangipo in early 2008 at 109kph on the speedo...and the police radar showed 114.

Two days later, the same thing happened again.: 114 for 109. I was now at 40 demerit points.....

So I learned to knock 5km off and never got another ticket.

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I've been on Geekzone over 16 years..... Time flies....

vyking56

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1992703 10-Apr-2018 13:05

The xception was my '98 Mazda Demio. It would show a slower speed than I was actually doing. I discovered this about 2 weeks after I bought it.

Wouldn't surprise me if someone had bought some tyres on special and thrown them on the car... not understanding how and why tyre profile is important!

jonathan18

7413 posts

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#1992705 10-Apr-2018 13:07

I’ve never driven a car that over-reports it’s speed more than our Leaf; ours is also doing about 92kmh when claiming 100, and and about 46 when doing 50. I’m sure this is one of the reasons why many Leaf drivers also tend to drive under the limit, given it’s a well-known issue across the model. (Most other cars I’ve checked tend to be doing 95-96 at a true 100.)

happyfunball

287 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1992755 10-Apr-2018 14:09

jonathan18: I’ve never driven a car that over-reports it’s speed more than our Leaf; ours is also doing about 92kmh when claiming 100, and and about 46 when doing 50. I’m sure this is one of the reasons why many Leaf drivers also tend to drive under the limit, given it’s a well-known issue across the model. (Most other cars I’ve checked tend to be doing 95-96 at a true 100.)

It looks like European cars started this nonsense on models made in 2003 and up: http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r039r1e.pdf

Japanese on 2011 and up: https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j1226_201108/

I don't think its fair to blame the Leaf for this, as older cars we've driven are probably quite different, and since a lot of people have upgraded ancient ICE cars for new EVs, this is probably a surprise for many people as soon as they drive a newer car.

I've seen threads on Facebook complaining about Leaf 'problems' that included driving with the parking break on (driver had never seen a foot pedal parking brake before), push button start not working (they didn't press the brake before starting) etc. All things that are not specific to the Leaf at all, but if you only driving experience is an ancient 5 speed Japanese import, then it will all seem very new and different.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1993042 10-Apr-2018 23:07

Linuxluver: Another great thing EVs can do is operate at full power at high altitudes. I drove my LEAF through the Porters Pass last year and it was funny seeing all the badly-tuned ICE gasping for air at the summit. LEAF don't care because the LEAF (or any purely battery EV) doesn't need air.

This is normal for any non turbo or non supercharged car. As the lower air pressure at high altitude means less air enters the engine at full throttle. Which in turn means less power output.

The solution if you need to keep driving an ICE car. Get a turbocharged car. As the boost pressure sensors are typically referenced against absolute 0 pressure (complete vacuum) So at high altitude, the car compensates by running a higher turbo boost pressure.

Also some car manufacturers decide to save 2$ or so, by not fitting a dedicated barometer sensor to their engine computers. So may go into limp mode if the car gets driven from sea level to high altitude in a single trip.

Also note that virtually every car uses vacuum assisted brakes. At high altitude the brake assist doesn't work as well.

Ge0rge

2053 posts

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#1993046 10-Apr-2018 23:31

Aredwood: This is normal for any non turbo or non supercharged car. As the lower air pressure at high altitude means less air enters the engine at full throttle. Which in turn means less power output.

The solution if you need to keep driving an ICE car. Get a turbocharged car.

Until the turbo overspools and the bearings give out - then you're left with a 350hp engine that doesn't want to make 35hp in a 20t vehicle, at over 3000m, in Indian country and a long way from home...

Sorry, long way off topic but it certainly made for an interesting extraction when the recovery vehicle did exactly the same thing!

langi27

675 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1994601 12-Apr-2018 08:38

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/nissan-starts-leaf-battery-exchange-program-in-japan/

Starting in May, Japanese LEAF owners will be able to exchange their old batteries for refurbished ones. Nissan will initially offer 24 kWh refabricated batteries for ¥300,000 ($2,853USD) each. Prices for brand-new replacement batteries range from $6,182 for a 24 kWh battery to $7,800 for the 40 kWh version.

wellygary

8321 posts

Uber Geek

#1994644 12-Apr-2018 09:24

Linuxluver:

Another great thing EVs can do is operate at full power at high altitudes. I drove my LEAF through the Porters Pass last year and it was funny seeing all the badly-tuned ICE gasping for air at the summit. LEAF don't care because the LEAF (or any purely battery EV) doesn't need air.

Porters pass is only 939m so I doubt they were "gasping for air" more likely it was the impact of the steep gradient,

Cars crossing the desert road don't notice that they are near 1100m,

Plenty of cars crawl up the kaimais and that only gets to less than 500M

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