Nissan LEAF - General

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1402 posts

Uber Geek

#2056098 14-Jul-2018 10:39

Patch for 30 kWh Leaf was available for EU Leafs from May 2018. It is visible on their Intranet from anywhere in the world. But that one is only applicable to 4 LBC part numbers in UK Leafs - like the one @ Linuxluver has.

EU patch has few options - it is not like "one-fits-all".

Nissan's SOP for that upgrade does not assume back out or back up - i.e. one way upgrade (or patching whatever you call it).

However, by analyzing how system works I think it is possible in principle to establish process to include back up. Nissan won't do it IMO as they will follow their SOP. Without back up in place - it is risky.

Japanese intranet is separate from the rest of the world. Jap Leaf has 3 kw charger on board, UK - 6 kw charger. You would not apply UK patch to Jap Leaf, that is for sure.

Would be interesting to see Japanese official release notes for their LBC part numbers, applicable for upgrade with corresponding after upgrade versions.

There are quite a number of different part numbers of 30 kWh LBC in New Zealand. And some may have already been patched, some not, some may not be applicable for patching.

To check your part number - go with the latest version of LeafSpy Pro -> Service Screen -> press "list ECU":

The 5 digit number prior to HV Battery line is your LBC part number. e.g. 3NA0D is one of the popular ones, but whether that one requires patch or not is still the question. I saw yesterday Leaf with that part number, 96% SOH and over 200 km estimated range on the dash.

Technically speaking - taking that firmware out of patched Leaf and transferring to non-patched (applicable one) is no-brainer.

But I still think Nissan should clean their stuff themselves...

Patch was announced as being fixing the readings, not the range...

Would be interesting to get DOCUMENTED results of "before" and "after", conducted in Auckland on the same route, using the same charging method and in the same temperature environment etc, etc and importantly at least ONE MONTH after the upgrade with the car being charged / discharged to almost empty at least 5 times using fast charger and at least 5 times on slow charger and have travelled reasonable distance. Just to eliminate the "result" observed after "battery degradation erase" which brings SOH to 100% straight away.

Until those results are documented and publicly available - I am taking ANY claims of success with the grain of salt.

Had tested way too many traction batteries and seeing too many results dramatically different from expectations to rely on someone's word.

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leaflearner

40 posts

Geek

#2056179 14-Jul-2018 14:31

Ruki, For the average Leaf driver doesn't "fixing the readings" amount to fixing the range? If your car tells you that you need to recharge within so many kilometres, then unless you have superior technical knowledge -- and care to risk ignoring the advice -- you accept that as defining your range.

As for not accepting "ANY claims of success" I applaud your caution, but many Leafs overseas have now had the firmware upgrade applied for your crucial month and I haven't seen a myriad screams of outrage at the online forums.

You mention at length a multiplicity of 30kWh model variations (defined by part numbers) that might interfere with applying the patch producing presumably disastrous results. Such information only confuses and worries the average owner of a Leading Environment-friendly, Affordable Family-car. The best he can do, if he wants/needs it done, is to entrust installing the fix to a reliable, experienced technician, with his own established business, and of good reputation in his home city. That, I believe, is what is happening in Auckland right now. Furthermore, that technician (who I'm sure like you knows about the different Leaf versions) has already carried out and tested the update as carefully as is probably possible.

I notice you made a similar post to the one above to another NZ Leaf forum but it appears to have been deleted. It would be interesting to know why.

nzkiwiman

2585 posts

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Subscriber

#2057590 17-Jul-2018 09:50

A co-worker had just brought a 2016 Nissan Leaf, we had been discussing his charging solutions and his trip from Dunedin-Oamaru-Dunedin and how the hills of between make an EV ride "challenging"

Sadly I got to work this morning and was told that he had an accident in the Leaf last night and had later died as part of the injuries.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/driver-dies-after-crash

dunnersdude

162 posts

Master Geek

#2057593 17-Jul-2018 10:00

RIP. So sad

dunnersdude

162 posts

Master Geek

#2058059 17-Jul-2018 23:49

How much does it cost to charge an EV at home?

24kWh battery - does that mean charging from 0-100% would cost 24 kWh electricity at your provider's rates? Or is the charging efficiency less than 100%?

GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#2058079 18-Jul-2018 07:18

dunnersdude: How much does it cost to charge an EV at home?

24kWh battery - does that mean charging from 0-100% would cost 24 kWh electricity at your provider's rates? Or is the charging efficiency less than 100%?

You would probably be keeping the battery between 20% - 80%, so maybe assume you'd be charging 60% on a regular basis? That's about 14kwh of the battery capacity you'd be charging, perhaps less given that the car holds some capacity in reserve.

So assuming 30 cents per kwh, that'd be about $4.20 at 100% efficiency without allowing for a peak or off-peak rate.

tdgeek

29746 posts

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#2058081 18-Jul-2018 07:31

GV27:

dunnersdude: How much does it cost to charge an EV at home?

24kWh battery - does that mean charging from 0-100% would cost 24 kWh electricity at your provider's rates? Or is the charging efficiency less than 100%?

You would probably be keeping the battery between 20% - 80%, so maybe assume you'd be charging 60% on a regular basis? That's about 14kwh of the battery capacity you'd be charging, perhaps less given that the car holds some capacity in reserve.

So assuming 30 cents per kwh, that'd be about $4.20 at 100% efficiency without allowing for a peak or off-peak rate.

Even at a full charge, about 7 bucks. They need to have many short TV ads quoting these types of figures, get the masses talking. IMHO the masses see electric cars as a novelty, not normal, too cautious. Get people talking, when the range of models grows, much more interest

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dunnersdude

162 posts

Master Geek

#2058091 18-Jul-2018 08:18

Is charging considered 100% efficient? 1 kWh electricity = 1 kWh added capacity to your EV battery?

SaltyNZ

8227 posts

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2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#2058094 18-Jul-2018 08:26

dunnersdude: Is charging considered 100% efficient? 1 kWh electricity = 1 kWh added capacity to your EV battery?

No, it's never 100% efficient, and the efficiency varies depending on how you charge. Very low charging rates - such as from a US 120V outlet - are less efficient due to the power consumption of controller electronics and and the relatively high I2R loss compared to the power transferred (which is half the power transfer of out 240V outlets for the same current). Fast charging rates are less efficient due to the domination of I2R power losses all across the circuit. The sweet spot for efficiency is somewhere in the middle - 240V charging at 10-30A. Good power transfer, not too much I2R loss.

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Linuxluver

5828 posts

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#2058128 18-Jul-2018 09:27

RUKI:

....

Patch was announced as being fixing the readings, not the range...

Would be interesting to get DOCUMENTED results of "before" and "after", conducted in Auckland on the same route, using the same charging method and in the same temperature environment etc, etc and importantly at least ONE MONTH after the upgrade with the car being charged / discharged to almost empty at least 5 times using fast charger and at least 5 times on slow charger and have travelled reasonable distance. Just to eliminate the "result" observed after "battery degradation erase" which brings SOH to 100% straight away.

Until those results are documented and publicly available - I am taking ANY claims of success with the grain of salt.

Had tested way too many traction batteries and seeing too many results dramatically different from expectations to rely on someone's word.

If the readings are wrong then the perception of range will be wrong.....so fixing the readings should *really* increase apparent range. We won't have known what the actual range was unless we ran the car right out......

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Linuxluver

5828 posts

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#2058131 18-Jul-2018 09:30

GV27:

dunnersdude: How much does it cost to charge an EV at home?

24kWh battery - does that mean charging from 0-100% would cost 24 kWh electricity at your provider's rates? Or is the charging efficiency less than 100%?

You would probably be keeping the battery between 20% - 80%, so maybe assume you'd be charging 60% on a regular basis? That's about 14kwh of the battery capacity you'd be charging, perhaps less given that the car holds some capacity in reserve.

So assuming 30 cents per kwh, that'd be about $4.20 at 100% efficiency without allowing for a peak or off-peak rate.

I'm on Powershop. My average rate per kWh is 19 cents.

Some electricity suppliers have an EV night rate as low as 9 cents.

Other people charge their EVs from solar for 'free'.

My take-away from that is that electricity is much more accessible than petrol. We can make electricity locally. We can make electricity at home.

Petrol.....virtually all imported (what we use in vehicles, anyway).

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tripper1000

1617 posts

Uber Geek

#2058206 18-Jul-2018 10:27

dunnersdude: Is charging considered 100% efficient? 1 kWh electricity = 1 kWh added capacity to your EV battery?

No, not quite.

Using Leaf Spy to see what the cars battery is doing on the battery side and a (un-calibrated) plugin watt meter from the Supermarket to see what is happening on the mains side, I see a loss of 125 watts per hour. I've just assumed that this is the cost/losses of running the charger & associated on board computers as it seems to be reasonably consistent at both 6amps and 10amps charge rate.

frednz

1467 posts

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Inactive user

#2061118 23-Jul-2018 16:43

http://evtalk.co.nz/suppliers-defend-leaf-fix/

Extracts from the above:

The Motor Industry Association has expressed concern over the safety of a locally-adapted software patch for the 30kW Leaf – but the suppliers are defending their work.

“The critical point is that the software fix is specific to the market the vehicle was produced for,” Crawford says. “A software fix designed for the US or UK market will not work for vehicles made for and sourced from Japan. Worse, it could seriously damage the vehicle’s controller that manages charge flows.”

GVI’s Hayden Johnston was not available for full comment; however, he indicated he is hugely disappointed the new vehicle industry would take aim at firms trying to support customers where new vehicle distributors had failed to do so.

It's interesting that an inappropriate software fix could even "seriously damage the vehicle's controller that manages charge flows". Is Nissan NZ going to be involved with approving and issuing an appropriate software fix for 30kWh Leafs in New Zealand?

Perhaps it's time for this "Consumer" report to be amended so that it shows that a software fix is available for 30kWh Leaf owners?

dunnersdude

162 posts

Master Geek

#2061119 23-Jul-2018 16:46

Wonder what the CGA view would be over a software update sold by a supplier and the limit of consequential liability.

GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#2061141 23-Jul-2018 17:49

All GVI cars are showing as being patched at the moment according to their website.

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