Nissan LEAF - General

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#3126378 12-Sep-2023 08:38

One of the keys for my wife’s Leaf has stopped working; definitely not the battery. It’s not been a problem as she’s the only driver, but now we’re selling the car I’m wondering about whether it’s worth replacing it.

Is there any point getting someone to look at the non-working key?

Is it particularly costly or complex to get a replacement key reprogrammed for the car? And I assume it needs either the working key or the car present to be able to be done (ie, needs to be done in the same location as we live)?

Or do I not worry, and just ensure the buyer understands there’s only one working key?

DumKopf

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#3126418 12-Sep-2023 10:02

If it's like other proximity keys, it's trivial to get a replacement key, provided you have a working one.

If you lose the 2nd key, or it stops working, you have to replace the whole unit within your car.

Highly recommend getting a new 2nd key as soon as possible, or make it VERY clear to the new owner that they should replace it asap or face a large bill. It could turn into a nightmare for you or the next owner if you don't.

Here's a link to a broken English service offering either a $200 key, or a $1,000 unit replacement if you have lost both.

NISSAN LEAF intelligent SMART Remote Key Replacement » JDM-PARTS.co.nz

NinjaSZ

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#3126479 12-Sep-2023 13:00

Hey all, wondering if you may be able to help with a little guidance since I have no experience with EVs. I do a daily 60km commute (mostly motorway). Considering getting a Nissan Leaf for my commute, and would charge nightly at home. Would also use for shorter trips to shops etc. Would be hoping to keep the car for ideally a good 8-10 years at least.

What kind of Leaf would fit these requirements? Keen to spend under $10k if possible - is this realistic?

DumKopf

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#3126560 12-Sep-2023 15:08

You’ll be looking for a Gen2 leaf for that money, which will already be approaching 10 years old. No one knows what the life of these batteries are, I’m not sure I’d expect another 10 years of full usage out of it.

I’d say that the money you save on gas would pay for the car itself if you have a gas car already, but with user road charges coming in next year most likely, you’ll have to factor that in as well.

smac

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#3126563 12-Sep-2023 15:24

DumKopf: I’d say that the money you save on gas would pay for the car itself if you have a gas car already, but with user road charges coming in next year most likely, you’ll have to factor that in as well.

That RUC business is a ticking timebomb about to blow up in the Govt's face (whichever Govt that might be!). Without a legislative change between now and April, PHEV owners will start paying the same RUC as a full electric owner. But then they already also pay the FED (tax) on any petrol they buy, so effectively are taxed twice. Neither the NZTA nor the MoT know what to do about it.......

They could discount the RUC for them (but who determines which models are eligible...?), or let them apply for a refund of the FED (same issue) but both of these require a law change in the window between a new Govt being formed, and the exemption expiring. If Winston hits 5% that might be a very small window......

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#3126571 12-Sep-2023 16:02

smac:

That RUC business is a ticking timebomb about to blow up in the Govt's face (whichever Govt that might be!). Without a legislative change between now and April, PHEV owners will start paying the same RUC as a full electric owner. But then they already also pay the FED (tax) on any petrol they buy, so effectively are taxed twice. Neither the NZTA nor the MoT know what to do about it.......

Why would a PHEV be liable for RUCs under the existing legislation?

IANAL but I think the problem is exactly the other way round: because a PHEV is petrol-fuelled, it's not RUC liable but most PHEVs will have enough battery range to complete their day's commute on battery alone, then charge up overnight. This would give them an enormous running cost advantage over all other vehicle types.
As I understand it, to make PHEVs liable for RUCs will require a legislation change

Apologies, this is off-topic, and should be discussed here: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=162&topicid=197896&page_no=623

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#3126629 12-Sep-2023 20:01

DumKopf:
If it's like other proximity keys, it's trivial to get a replacement key, provided you have a working one.

If you lose the 2nd key, or it stops working, you have to replace the whole unit within your car.

Highly recommend getting a new 2nd key as soon as possible, or make it VERY clear to the new owner that they should replace it asap or face a large bill. It could turn into a nightmare for you or the next owner if you don't.

Here's a link to a broken English service offering either a $200 key, or a $1,000 unit replacement if you have lost both.

NISSAN LEAF intelligent SMART Remote Key Replacement » JDM-PARTS.co.nz

Thanks, @DumKopf - really useful info. I’m waiting to hear back from JDM about cost/availability, having just missed out on the right remote from FB Marketplace, damn it…

I’ve found what appears, based on the code, to be the correct remote on Ali Express - but all advertise themselves as two button, and most reference Nissan Leaf 2016 but not earlier years (unlike the other models). I’m fine if the remote only provides lock/unlock (and not the unlock charging port of the original), but not sure if this is the case or if it’s an incompatible model (which is weird given the model number aligns).

The key model is TWB1J701, and here’s one such listing for that model: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002863139215.html

Does anyone have experience in this to suggest it should be compatible?

Scott3

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#3126684 12-Sep-2023 21:33

NinjaSZ:

Hey all, wondering if you may be able to help with a little guidance since I have no experience with EVs. I do a daily 60km commute (mostly motorway). Considering getting a Nissan Leaf for my commute, and would charge nightly at home. Would also use for shorter trips to shops etc. Would be hoping to keep the car for ideally a good 8-10 years at least.

What kind of Leaf would fit these requirements? Keen to spend under $10k if possible - is this realistic?

to roughly work out the range of a leaf, I start with the EPA range and then multiply by the state of health. (that is for driving pretty gently)

EPA ranges:

ZE0: 117km

AZE0 24kWh: 135km
AZE0 30kWh: 172km

ZE1 40kWh: 243km
ZE1 62kWh: 364km

So if you buy a 2014 (AZE0 24kWh) leaf like mine with 73% battery health, your range would be: 135*0.73 = 97.2km.

Batteries for 2014+ AZE0 24kWh cars tend to degrade at about 3 percentage points a year, so if you wanted a 20km safety buffer (a good idea), your expect to get about three - four years out of that car before the range drops below 80km total (60km commute + 20km buffer).

You could run the numbers for a 30kWh car (their batteries tend degrade a little faster than the 2014+ 24kWh, and are a touch more prone to failure, but of course you start with more range), and see if you can find a better outcome. You can extrapolate battery degradation numbers from the data here:

https://flipthefleet.org/resources/benchmark-your-leaf-before-buying/

Frankly I think getting a 8 - 10 year lifespan from your budget & range needs in a leaf is a stretch.

That said, for somebody running up decent mileage like yourself, you could potentially buy a car like the below ($6990 after rebate), and pay it back in fuel savings in 2-3 years (of course this depends on what you are replacing, and what happens with RUC's). Once the range drops below what you are comfortable with, you can sell it to somebody with a lesser range need to recover some of the purchase price.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/cars/nissan/leaf/listing/4315286543

Or up your budget to $19k, and get a second-generation leaf with the 40kWh battery. These are holding up really well based on flip the fleet data.

Scott3

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#3126686 12-Sep-2023 21:36

DumKopf: You’ll be looking for a Gen2 leaf for that money, which will already be approaching 10 years old. No one knows what the life of these batteries are, I’m not sure I’d expect another 10 years of full usage out of it.

Second Generation are the 2017+ 40kWh & 62kWh cars:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

DumKopf

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#3126738 12-Sep-2023 22:21

Scott3:

DumKopf: You’ll be looking for a Gen2 leaf for that money, which will already be approaching 10 years old. No one knows what the life of these batteries are, I’m not sure I’d expect another 10 years of full usage out of it.

Second Generation are the 2017+ 40kWh & 62kWh cars:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

Ah sorry, yes. Thought there was 2 generations in the first shape, but I guess when talking about the original shape, we're talking about 2 generations of battery.

Look for the 2nd generation battery of the first generation car.

Scott3

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#3126742 12-Sep-2023 22:40

DumKopf:

Ah sorry, yes. Thought there was 2 generations in the first shape, but I guess when talking about the original shape, we're talking about 2 generations of battery.

Look for the 2nd generation battery of the first generation car.

It has got really confusing.

Auto industry norms are that mid cycle refresh's (and thinks like drive-train changes) don't get new generation numbers.

But people started calling the mid cycle refresh (AZE0) leaf the Gen2, and some even called the AZE0 30kWh the Gen3. Not a huge deal, and no room for confusion until Nissan released the second generation leaf in 2017. But the incorrect generation numbers have somewhat stuck, and now we have heaps of room for confusion between generations.

To make matters more confusing the change to the lizard chemistry 24kWh battery, did not coincide with the mid cycle refresh. So most 2013 cars are post refresh, but get the non-lizard battery chemistry, where most 2014 car's get the slower degrading lizard chemistry.

And Nissan Australia was unable to sell a bunch of 2011 build date leaf's (ZE0), so shipped them to NZ, where Nissan NZ sold them as 2013 or 2014 cars, at a time when nissan was producing AZE0 cars (allowed as in NZ, the year of the car is the year of it's first registration, not build date). These are the ones with factory fitted spare tires.

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#3126891 13-Sep-2023 09:55

NinjaSZ: ... I do a daily 60km commute (mostly motorway). Considering getting a Nissan Leaf for my commute, and would charge nightly at home. ...

Motorway driving, i.e. higher speeds drain your battery fast. You will have to charge every night. Especially for those instances where you want to make a detour for some reason. Make sure to take care of your battery.

I've heard of one podcast host talking about going from range anxiety to range frustration. Frustrated because he now sometimes go out of his way to find a charger & can't be that spontaneous with his travels. Seriously consider installing a dedicated charger. Having to wait for a standard 10A plug to charge your car can be frustrating as well.

Scott3: ... Frankly I think getting a 8 - 10 year lifespan from your budget & range needs in a leaf is a stretch ...

Agreed.

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happyfunball

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#3127269 13-Sep-2023 17:31

HarmLessSolutions:

From what I've seen the odometer reading isn't as much of an influence as the number of DC (fast) charges. In your data 537 vs. 3,918 AC charges.

From what I've read and seen, battery *age* is the number one factor for degradation, with heat/charge levels next most important. Charging expands the battery (the batteries physically swell a bit when charged) and this physical/chemical reaction degrades the battery. Sitting around with a charge is also degrading the battery, even without any cycling.

So with EV's its use it and lose it I'm afraid.

Disinfo

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#3136329 29-Sep-2023 09:56

Scott3:

DumKopf:

Ah sorry, yes. Thought there was 2 generations in the first shape, but I guess when talking about the original shape, we're talking about 2 generations of battery.

Look for the 2nd generation battery of the first generation car.

It has got really confusing.

Auto industry norms are that mid cycle refresh's (and thinks like drive-train changes) don't get new generation numbers.

But people started calling the mid cycle refresh (AZE0) leaf the Gen2, and some even called the AZE0 30kWh the Gen3. Not a huge deal, and no room for confusion until Nissan released the second generation leaf in 2017. But the incorrect generation numbers have somewhat stuck, and now we have heaps of room for confusion between generations.

To make matters more confusing the change to the lizard chemistry 24kWh battery, did not coincide with the mid cycle refresh. So most 2013 cars are post refresh, but get the non-lizard battery chemistry, where most 2014 car's get the slower degrading lizard chemistry.

And Nissan Australia was unable to sell a bunch of 2011 build date leaf's (ZE0), so shipped them to NZ, where Nissan NZ sold them as 2013 or 2014 cars, at a time when nissan was producing AZE0 cars (allowed as in NZ, the year of the car is the year of it's first registration, not build date). These are the ones with factory fitted spare tires.

I like the Flip the Fleet naming convention

ZE0 = Gen 1.1
AZE0 24kWh = Gen 1.2
AZE0 30kWh = Gen 1.3

Pretty sure I've seen one of those NZ new ZE0s on Trademe as a 2015 reg so watch out for those.

HarmLessSolutions

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#3136356 29-Sep-2023 10:08

Disinfo:

I like the Flip the Fleet naming convention

ZE0 = Gen 1.1
AZE0 24kWh = Gen 1.2
AZE0 30kWh = Gen 1.3
Pretty sure I've seen one of those NZ new ZE0s on Trademe as a 2015 reg so watch out for those.

Worth noting that the 'new' Leafs that Nissan NZ discounted down to ~$40K (from ~$70K) back in 2014 were unsold stock from Nissan AU so probably ZEOs. The slow selling remnants of that stock could well explain 2015 NZ rego'd ZEOs.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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