RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

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668 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#3166539 30-Nov-2023 19:40

HarmLessSolutions:
lchiu7:

Also

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/133375247/national-kills-off-clean-car-discount-scheme-ev-advocates-respond

Along with the usual anti-CCD rhetoric the comments section is full of the 'EVs must pay RUCs' line. Wonder how they'll react to learning that ALL vehicles will be charged distance based RUCs in the near future?

It'll be the EVs fault they have to change how they pay for their car even though it's actually those pesky phevs.

HarmLessSolutions

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#3166542 30-Nov-2023 19:46

everettpsycho:
HarmLessSolutions:

Along with the usual anti-CCD rhetoric the comments section is full of the 'EVs must pay RUCs' line. Wonder how they'll react to learning that ALL vehicles will be charged distance based RUCs in the near future?

It'll be the EVs fault they have to change how they pay for their car even though it's actually those pesky phevs.

They're the ones who keep harping on about how modern ICEs are becoming so efficient that EVs are unnecessary. Less petrol = less FET tax so how else are TPTB going to ensure enough income from RUC? By whatever method a driver reduces their fuel consumption is irrelevant; still have to pay for those roads.

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RUKI

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#3173538 20-Dec-2023 00:40

Per km charge for ALL cars is gonna be a failure. They will collect less, will realize it only after a while and will reverse back. A lot of money and efforts will be wasted along the way. Some cars will be immobilized. Some NZ new car warranties will be cancelled. I've seen few failed Hybrid, Petrol, Diezel and EV speedometers before. Mainly failed LEDs and only couple with frozen ODO. The number of failures with those will increase, especially in European cars. Korean cars would experience the highest volume of failures.

MikeAqua

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#3173550 20-Dec-2023 08:43

RUKI: Some cars will be immobilized. Some NZ new car warranties will be cancelled.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Mike

Bung

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#3173617 20-Dec-2023 10:32

MikeAqua:
RUKI: Some cars will be immobilized. Some NZ new car warranties will be cancelled.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

People will try to fiddle the odometer and stuff up?

SaltyNZ

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2degrees

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#3173618 20-Dec-2023 10:38

Bung:

People will try to fiddle the odometer and stuff up?

Surely that's already a thing? Not that I would want to generalise in any way, shape or form, but it sounds like the kind of thing a utebro would already be predisposed towards.

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RUKI

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#3173650 20-Dec-2023 13:19

@bung - correct. A lot of surprises are coming their way.

My collection of various speedometers which were purchased as part of R&D for Japanese to English conversions all of a sudden will raise in value ;)

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HarmLessSolutions

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#3173652 20-Dec-2023 13:30

RUKI: @bung - correct. A lot of surprises are coming their way.

My collection of various speedometers which were purchased as part of R&D for Japanese to English conversions all of a sudden will raise in value ;)

You're assuming that monitoring will be odometer based. Interrogating via a OBD port or mandating a GPS based logger will bypass the vehicle's odometer. Technology has gone way beyond DIY odometer tampering being effective. Besides the penalties for those trying to defraud the system should be significant and an effective deterrent for all but the criminally determined.

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smac

338 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#3173745 20-Dec-2023 14:14

Yes the exact same issue has always existed for diesels, and is exactly why the fines are big (3X the amount owing if you're caught behind, way more if it's deliberate evasion).

RUKI

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#3173823 20-Dec-2023 20:00

@HarmLessSolutions GPS tracking? Don't tell me you seriously believe people would allow complete breach of their privacy? It is no different from attaching the GPS braslet to your leg and charging you per every km you walk on the footpath. Footpath needs maintenance too ;)

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HarmLessSolutions

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#3173837 20-Dec-2023 20:58

RUKI: @HarmLessSolutions GPS tracking? Don't tell me you seriously believe people would allow complete breach of their privacy? It is no different from attaching the GPS braslet to your leg and charging you per every km you walk on the footpath. Footpath needs maintenance too ;)

You do realise that your smartphone is a de facto tracking device and that you appear umpteen times in the various CCTV cameras you pass every day? If you drive a company vehicle your employer's possibly tracking you using a service such as E Road already.

Considering the uses that the government can derive from a GPS based RUC tracking system such as levying congestion charges and managing traffic flows, plus the ability to delete any non-road travel I wouldn't be surprised if they had such a system in mind, as hinted by Simeon Brown when he mentioned RUCs charged by 'electronic means'. Personal privacy is no more than an illusion in the 21st century, and I'd be wary of promoting your selection of odometer replacements on an open online forum in that regard.

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itxtme

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#3173908 20-Dec-2023 23:04

HarmLessSolutions:

Considering the uses that the government can derive from a GPS based RUC tracking system such as levying congestion charges and managing traffic flows, plus the ability to delete any non-road travel I wouldn't be surprised if they had such a system in mind, as hinted by Simeon Brown when he mentioned RUCs charged by 'electronic means'. Personal privacy is no more than an illusion in the 21st century, and I'd be wary of promoting your selection of odometer replacements on an open online forum in that regard.

Its just not realistic. I suspect he meant electronic in the sense you will not need to get a printed ticket to put in your windscreen as is currently required for RUC.

The cost of such a GPS device, in every vehicle would be in the billions, who is paying for that? The monthly data plan costs would be tens of millions per month - Im low-balling. And how do they even work in areas where coverage is limited etc. How are the devices powered, with antennas correctly installed for GPS coverage? How is the bad data dealt with from GPS misreads. Then there's the life of said devices and who troubleshoots them. What happens to the lost data - free miles?

I can think of basically no good reasons for this idea, when there is a perfectly adequate way to measure distance, the odometer. . Like I said, its not realistic.

Putting all of that aside If you consider the optics of the ANPR networks police tap into, the laws don't even support it.

RNZ Article

Rust

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Master Geek
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#3173916 21-Dec-2023 06:15

Whilst I'm sure there will be companies trying to come up with an E-Road type solution for light vehicles, because why wouldn't they, the reality is the government will most likely do the cheapest, quickest solution which is to simply utilize the current system of relying on the odometer. Is it perfect, no, but it's already in place and functioning. I expect they may put some effort into improving the system of purchasing km's, but I wouldn't expect much more than that.

PolicyGuy

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#3173930 21-Dec-2023 08:15

If the government went for a GPS-based solution, I would expect that a certain proportion of the population would import (completely illegal) GPS jammers to 'blind' the GPS tracker in their vehicle. This has proved to be the case in some parts of the USA, where some truckies are keen to avoid "gummint snooping", according to a report I read some time ago.

The problem with this (apart from the general criminality) is that where a road with any decent amount of such traffic passes close to an airport, it can interrupt GPS coverage for aircraft landing at the airport, and disrupt air traffic.

wired

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Master Geek
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#3173931 21-Dec-2023 08:20

The government already collects the odometer from every vehicle as part of the WOF process so it doesn’t need to do much more to check compliance.

Here is a link to an api that already tells you if your car is subject to RUC charges and whether the RUC has expired. https://checka.co.nz/report/sample

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