EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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2123 posts

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#2813352 15-Nov-2021 16:31

djtOtago:

Can non Tesla EVs use a Supercharger yet?

Not yet, but it's being piloted in the Netherlands with a few select sites, with the goal of rolling it out worldwide depending on how the pilot goes. There are a few complications in relation to where some vehicle OEMs put their charge ports. Some are on the opposite side to Tesla so it means those vehicles end up using two charger bays to charge.

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olivernz

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#2813353 15-Nov-2021 16:32

Obraik:

Tesla is seeking to install a 6 bay Supercharger site in Turangi...but the local council is doing what local councils do best and getting in the way with baseless claims.

Ugly chargers??? Have they seen the ChargeNet ones???? And as a community so far off the beaten track I'd be happy if someone wanted to use their town for giving it modern infrastructure not go, maybe we take 4. Did anyone tell them Teslas are currently pest selling personal car? If I were Tesla I'd try next town over. See what they think then. Or just put them on hold for a while while they build other sites.

Obraik

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#2813354 15-Nov-2021 16:38

Technofreak:

The council never made those claims. They were the thoughts of one councillor that have been reported.

Based on what? I'd based on his observations where he has never see more than one or two Tesla's in town at the same time. I'd say a short sighted observation but not baseless never the less. There's several Tesla charging stations at Te Awa and I've never seen a Tesla using any of them. Based on my observations I could be justified in saying they were a waste of underground spaces. I suspect they're not.

Ugly? Once again, one persons thoughts. As you say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Whether or not it's in Turangi or anywhere else or that it's in a car park the locals have a right to have a say on what they'd like to see.

Baseless claims? I don't really see any and certainly none from the council. Their concerns were about the location within the car park.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but do councilors not make up the council?

Maybe the reason the councillor doesn't see more than one or two Tesla's in town is because there isn't a supercharger in town? Either way, we can't build infrasctructure based on what we see today but based on projections. With the Model 3 topping sales charts each quarter, the overall push to EVs and the fact that Tesla is rolling out Supercharger access to all EVs, it doesn't take much deduction to come to the conclusion that 6 bays will be well used.

As for the prettyness of chargers, does the councillor require that the many service stations in the area make sure that their pumps look pretty? Does the councillor seek locals opinions before ok'ing those? What about trolley return bays in the car parks?

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wellygary

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#2813355 15-Nov-2021 16:39

olivernz:

If I were Tesla I'd try next town over.

There are two adjacent towns on SH1, Taupo to the North, which has a bank of 4 supercharger spots,

and Waiouru 60 Km to the south, which has a chargenet charger already

olivernz

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#2813518 15-Nov-2021 20:39

wellygary:

olivernz:

If I were Tesla I'd try next town over.

There are two adjacent towns on SH1, Taupo to the North, which has a bank of 4 supercharger spots,

and Waiouru 60 Km to the south, which has a chargenet charger already

Maybe put one on a scenic outlook smack where there's a good view of Mt Ruapehu. WOuld be cool with that view. Probably get complaints because there's no Starbucks in walking distance. :-D

Scott3

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#2813567 15-Nov-2021 22:46

Regarding location, Turangi is very strategic for tesla.

323km from Auckland
322km from Wellington
On the quickest (per google maps) route between the Auckland and welling (Going via Taupo township adds 18 minutes to the trip)
Gateway to the Tongariro National Park for people coming from the north.
A (minor) tourist destination in it's own right. Already a common stopping point on long trips, with a range of dining etc to suit that duty.

Those distances are fairly key, means their longer range vehicles can easily do an Auckland to Wellington trip with only a single stop (and charging to only 90% would likely be enough).

Waiouru wouldn't be as good. Quite close to the existing Mangaweka super charger, and an extra 60km from the hamilton one for people in shorter range cars (incl those towing or with roof loads). Fairly even charger spacing is more optimal for EV's, as they charge faster at states of charge.

Regarding Aesthetics:

It is likely to be a V3 (250kW each, no sharing) supercharger setup. The pedestals might have good aesthetics's, but the various cabinets & bollards arn't aesthetically pleasing

And there are overseas examples where they have been screened for aesthetic reasons:

Life With Tesla Model S: Local Supercharger Joys & Frustrations

TESLA SUPERCHARGER - EV Charging Stations - 17810 Collier Ave, Lake Elsinore, CA

Tesla-Supercharger-transformers - TESLARATI

Worth a try by the town.

Regarding the number

Given the strategic location of this town, I suspect Tesla will really want 6.

They seem to subscribe to the do it once, and do it well approach with supercharger stations. And they are not capital constrained.

From the towns perspective, I get that they are giving up public space for exclusive use of this brand. But in this case, space seems really redundant.

Regarding the location

Towards the police station dose seem better. At the back of the lot, so less annoyance of the exclusive spaces for drivers of other car brands, and lower odds of the spaces being blocked for Tesla owners. Also good sight lines to the roundabout making it easy for arriving drivers to locate. - only issue is moving away from the tree's will reduce masking of the cabinets.

Regarding other brands of car

Yes this is being trialed in Europe, but it sounds like a bit of a mess. Main issues that different brands have charge ports in different places.

Tesla superchargers have short cables which makes them very tidy when each car using them has the charge port at the same place. But when you get other brands, cars end up needing to occupy the adjacent space to the charger they are using etc.

Obviously would be better if it was charge.net hypercharger instead, so all brands of EV can use it. In my mind this would be better use of public space. But charge.net already has one charger in town (on private land at a petrol station), and space really dose seem abundant if they subsequently applied to the council to use public land.

jarledb

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#2813570 15-Nov-2021 23:09

Toyota is trying very hard to dissuade me of buying an EV from them (when it finally becomes available, at some point).

InsideEV: Toyota Forms ‘Team Japan’ To Help Keep Combustion Engine Alive

"Toyota’s continued resistance to BEVs is becoming more and more prevalent. Just days after refusing to sign a climate pledge aiming to phase out fossil-fuel vehicles by 2040, Toyota has organized a team to promote the combustion engine in the electric age. ‘Team Japan’ consists of Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. The group will work together on the development of greener fueling options as well as hydrogen tech."

Looks to me like Toyota is still being dragged into the BEV future kicking and screaming...

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olivernz

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#2813625 16-Nov-2021 08:48

Yeah I get Kawasaki and Yamaha. Motorcycles, snowmobiles and boats aren't as easy to electrify as the car is. Their weight/size limits make it difficult under the current energy density. Potentially a good area for hydrogen but then you have the hydrogen station issue as these aren't high volume vehicles. Or they need to wait for solid state to become real.

RobDickinson

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#2813702 16-Nov-2021 09:52

olivernz:

Yeah I get Kawasaki and Yamaha. Motorcycles, snowmobiles and boats aren't as easy to electrify as the car is. Their weight/size limits make it difficult under the current energy density. Potentially a good area for hydrogen but then you have the hydrogen station issue as these aren't high volume vehicles. Or they need to wait for solid state to become real.

There are already electric versions of all 3.

Obraik

2123 posts

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#2814047 16-Nov-2021 21:20

It's a dissapointing week when it comes to councils. Despite the recommendations of their own report to approve the request, the New Plymouth council has voted against granting permission to Tesla to install a Supercharger site (along with a generic charger) at the proposed sites.

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WyleECoyoteNZ

1049 posts

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#2814072 16-Nov-2021 21:44

The Government Giveth, The Government taketh....

From the link below:

"The New Zealand Ministry for the Environment has today announced that it is seeking consultation from the public on a proposal to charge electric vehicle buyers a fee to handle the process of recycling a vehicle’s batteries once they’ve run their course"

https://www.autocar.co.nz/kiwi-ev-buyers-could-pay-mandatory-fee-over-battery-disposal/

HarmLessSolutions

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#2814089 16-Nov-2021 21:56

WyleECoyoteNZ:

The Government Giveth, The Government taketh....

From the link below:

"The New Zealand Ministry for the Environment has today announced that it is seeking consultation from the public on a proposal to charge electric vehicle buyers a fee to handle the process of recycling a vehicle’s batteries once they’ve run their course"

https://www.autocar.co.nz/kiwi-ev-buyers-could-pay-mandatory-fee-over-battery-disposal/

If that is to be implemented then a similar charge/levy should apply for plastic packaging, glass bottles, tyres, soft furnishings (urethane foam) and non-biodegradable packaging just for starters.

Having previously literally dropped used cellphone batteries on the local council's information centre desk because they had no designated waste disposal path for these items I can understand the fears regarding EV batteries but how about they deal with existing problems before they propose implementing further charges on the consumer for what is a just in case scenario at this stage?

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

jonathan18

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#2814095 16-Nov-2021 22:07

Obraik:

It's a dissapointing week when it comes to councils. Despite the recommendations of their own report to approve the request, the New Plymouth council has voted against granting permission to Tesla to install a Supercharger site (along with a generic charger) at the proposed sites.

Seems somewhat shortsighted, given it’s not like they’d have been giving up much revenue. Was there any reasoning given for them voting against it?

Is there precedence of other councils provided council-owned land for Tesla charging stations? Locally, Tesla chargers are in a mall car park, but the Chargenet ones are on council parks.

Obraik

2123 posts

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#2814102 16-Nov-2021 22:17

Still waiting on the minutes to be released to get the full details on why they went against the recommendation..

I believe the Taupo supercharge is on Council land. The Queenstown one may be as well. Christchurch and Auckland councils are installing EV chargers in their car parks, both AC and DC fast chargers.

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Linuxluver

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#2814116 16-Nov-2021 23:48

afe66: NYT
America Isn’t Ready for the Electric-Vehicle Revolution https://nyti.ms/3Cgnqrf

This got me.
China "now possesses about 90 percent of global capacity to process raw lithium, about 70 percent of cobalt and 40 percent of nickel. China also has almost all the manganese- and graphite-refining capacity."

So the west building lots of battery factories is stuffed if China decides to preferential supply its own manufacturers and the export completed cars.

Apparently the refining capacity is the difficult bit not just sourcing raw materials..

China is playing chess while the oligarchs in the US are playing checkers. China secured these minerals fully 15-20 years ago. They could see it coming and said so at the time. But Us-aligned media (like ours) don't report that stuff and our politicians have tended to slavishly follow the US State Department views on all of it. Even worse, NZ has been steadfastly committed to destroying its own capacity to make anything since Muldoon lost in1984......and still is.

China, meanwhile, had learned to make anything and everything and also had the raw materials to do it.

It's almost funny listening to "experts" in the US, UK and elsewhere be dumb as rocks, for the most part, while China just carries on becoming awesome in most ways that matter geopolitically .

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