Nissan LEAF - General

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#1836905 4-Aug-2017 00:14

paulchinnz:
My range has taken a noticeable hit in last 2 months. Having previously averaged ~8.4 km/kWh (including some aircon), it's now more like 7 km/kWh (with lots of heatpump going), and less on the single digit temperature days in Christchurch. No change in routes.

i.e. 15%+ decrease in range.

Interested in hearing other's experiences.

Wait till summer to compare? Batteries all the a hit in winter cold, as there design factor is not built for extremes... you’re in Christchurch, so likely MUCH colder in winter than the mid 15C the battery operates ideally at...

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#1836906 4-Aug-2017 00:31

Boys, where did you get that "idea" that charging to 80% is better for the battery vs 100%? Are there any geeks around charging their laptop battery to no more than 80% to prolong it's life? Someone made that statement (about 80% being good) and you are buying into that?

There are only 2 justifications for NOT charging Leaf to 100%:

a) You are frugal to the extreme and you do it at the paid fast charger with the pricing structure where you pay per Kw AND per minute. Li battery charging algorithms are - reducing charge current when, say 4.1V level is reached (depends on the algorithm which is programmable and could differ). Hence you pay more for less energy "pumped" into your battery after ~80% charge

b) You are using fast charger (vs slow) and as you know your Leaf battery does not have cooling system and you afraid that you can overheat and damage it. There are temperature sensors inside and LBC will take care of that. So do not worry.

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#1836908 4-Aug-2017 00:48

https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide
and search for 80%. It's all over the place, besides referring to 80% mode as long life mode and "improves battery longevity".

Some bits from page EV-24

To maximize vehicle range, NISSAN recommends
using the default setting, long distance
mode (100% charge). To maximize the battery’s
useful life, use the following driving and charging
habits where possible:
...
Avoid sustained high battery state of charge
(caused, for example, by frequently charging to
100% state of charge and/or leaving the battery
above 80% state of charge for long periods of
time).

paulchinnz

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#1836935 4-Aug-2017 07:31

PhantomNVD:
paulchinnz:
My range has taken a noticeable hit in last 2 months. Having previously averaged ~8.4 km/kWh (including some aircon), it's now more like 7 km/kWh (with lots of heatpump going), and less on the single digit temperature days in Christchurch. No change in routes.

i.e. 15%+ decrease in range.

Interested in hearing other's experiences.

Wait till summer to compare? Batteries all the a hit in winter cold, as there design factor is not built for extremes... you’re in Christchurch, so likely MUCH colder in winter than the mid 15C the battery operates ideally at...

8.4 km/kWh was over 2016-2017 summer (I've had it a year now). I thought if read previously that range only affected by temperature when subzero. Anyway interested in hearing how others are going with their Leafs rangewise in the cold.

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#1837047 4-Aug-2017 10:44

2018 Model looks much better, official release details 6 September.

Will be interesting to see range and pricing. Hopefully Nissan NZ will wake up and bring them into NZ.

RUKI

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#1837049 4-Aug-2017 10:47

... 80%. It's all over the place, ....

Li battery pack balancing is only happening at the highest level of charge and not at <80%

People who played with Remote Controlled Cars and Quad-copters or other multi string Li battery operated toys would know that from experience.

Charge your Li battery pack <80% and you will face the inevitable battery unbalancing sooner rather than later.

Couple of Leaf batteries in Auckland have already been "re-balanced" manually, FYI - price tag is around one full day (8 man-hours).

Finally - even if something is "all over the place" does not mean it is correct or the best way of doing things. e.g. "Individual Module Replacement" in Prius Battery" is echoed in thousands of re-posts from incompetent DIY-ers.

Hence it is personal choice - to go with what is "all over the place" or not.

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#1839108 4-Aug-2017 12:07

kotuku4:

2018 Model looks much better, official release details 6 September.

Will be interesting to see range and pricing. Hopefully Nissan NZ will wake up and bring them into NZ.

Range has to be between 200-300 mile (320-450km, )- and its pricing has to be no more than $35K USD

NZ wise I would expect it to be priced $60-70K....

Linuxluver

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#1839571 5-Aug-2017 17:42

MarkH67:

If I bought a cheap 2011 Leaf how long could I expect it to go before it had difficulty with a 70km round trip? I am unsure of how the boss would feel if I ran an extension cord to the office at work and charged the car for 2 or 3 hours each morning, though at under $1 per day if I did that he might not care.

Home -> Work -> Home = ~70km

It looks like I could save a reasonable amount if I sold my ST1300 motorcycle and bought a Leaf and used it to commute to work and back every day. I would save over $1k per year on fuel (Petrol is currently ~$1600 per year, maybe near $1200 saved if I went EV) and over $300 on rego (motorcycle rego is $522 PA) and ~$500 PA on tyres (bike doesn't manage an entire year on each tyre and 1 front + 1 rear costs ~$800). It looks like I'd be saving around $2k PA if I switched my daily commuter to a Nissan Leaf.

Do 2nd hand Leafs usually come with a charger? What am I needing to buy initially? Is it car + on road costs + charger? For a car priced at $10,995 would I be spending around $12k total to be away and laughing?

The car should come with some way to charge it, even if it's just plugging it into a 3-pin "3112" ordinary house power point. It will deliver roughly 2.2kw / hour. That's good enough to charge a 24kWh LEAF from empty in about 10 hours or less. Everywhere has a 3112 power point if they have power at all. :-)

But maybe you're in hurry sometimes. Maybe being able to charge at 16amp via an EVSE with a blue commando plug would be better. It's certainly faster, delivering 3.3kw / hour. So to get your 22.1 (maximum available in a perfect Nissan LEAF 24kWh battery) from empty would be 7 hours - ish. You save 3 hours. Nice if you're in a hurry or trying to go further away and have to 'bridge' a gap between fast chargers with a stop in a camp ground. The faster the better.

If you get a Nissan LEAF with a 6.7kw internal charger (mainly from the UK, these - I have one) then you're able to charge at 32amp....which is 6.6kw / hour....so it only takes you 3.5 hours to get your 22.1kWh. The 6.7kw internal charger also lets you charge at 32amp wherever providers have put the Type 1-compatible chargers...like at Sylvia Park or LynnMall...or many cafes / shops around the country.

So what you need and what you want boils down to what you plan to do. I wanted options so I have a 3112-compatible 10amp / 3.3kw Nissan EVSE that came with my UK LEAF. No internal conversion required on that as UK power is the same as NZ power. I also have a Charge Amps "Spark" (paid $1000 for it) with a blue commando plug on it. It's usually set to 16amp, but I can also use a "Mini-Blu" (paid $155 for it from Bluecars.nz) with it set to 10amp mode. This gives me a backup to my Nissan EVSE. I also have a Type 2 to Type 1 cable that came with my LEAF. I can charge at 32amp from any charger with a Type 2 socket.

I wanted maximum flexbility - to be able to charge anywhere if needed - and some redundancy. If your only EVSE malfunctions for some reason, you can't charge unless you have another one or access to a DC fast charger.

I'm "Mr Plan B". It's how I'm wired. :-)

So how much you spend is up to you. You might just go with whatever comes with the car and live with any limitations. Or you might decide to expand you range of options and reduce the limitations.

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#1839573 5-Aug-2017 17:49

kotuku4:

2018 Model looks much better, official release details 6 September.

Will be interesting to see range and pricing. Hopefully Nissan NZ will wake up and bring them into NZ.

Nissan NZ's web pages talk about "Intelligent Mobility". This includes "Intelligent Power" and explicitly references both electric vehicles and local future developments.

So....we'll see.

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#1839587 5-Aug-2017 18:28

Linuxluver:

I wanted maximum flexbility - to be able to charge anywhere if needed - and some redundancy.

This is what I'm thinking. I want to be able to charge from any standard power socket so that I can charge at anyone's house or at home - 10 hours shouldn't be a problem if I'm staying somewhere overnight. But if I stayed at a campground I'd like to be able to plug into a socket there, when I travel I do tend to stay in campgrounds so this is a realistic scenario. Of course I also want to be able to use the fast chargers that I am likely to have access to while travelling. If I go up to Auckland to see some friends I could plug in, even for a couple of hours would gain me an extra 20km range which is still useful, if I was there for 8 hours I could get a decent charge into the car and giving them $5 would be more than enough to cover the power I'd use.

I was originally thinking of spending $12k but I've decided to up my budget to $20k, this is enough to get a 2015 or even a 2016 car if I stick with 24kWh. I'd like a 30kWh for the extra range but that would cost at a minimum an extra $5k (only saw 1 car at that price on TM) but more typically $8k - $12k more. If it was $8k more to get 40kWh instead of 24kWh then I'd possibly attempt to stretch my budget to it. To me it is just too much extra cost for only a 6kWh more capacity. Maybe I'll just drive my 24kWh for 5 or 6 years and then trade it in on something that is quite a big jump up - depending on how fast the battery technology improves. I might find that the 24kWh car manages just fine for 8 or more years and over that time there will be several dozen new options coming on to the market.

So yeah, should be getting a nice 'near new' 2015/2016 gen 2 Leaf within the next month or two if all goes to plan. I'm really looking forward to having a cool new car that doesn't cost much to run and doesn't pollute the environment. The only polluting gas coming out of my Leaf will be the occasional bit of methane - that's a high fibre diet for you!

dolsen

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#1839588 5-Aug-2017 18:28

MarkH67:

OK, I have more questions & thoughts:

I'm thinking about upping my budget a bit and spending $16-18k on a Gen 2 Leaf. I kinda want a newer nicer car and also I'm thinking with a bit more range and a couple of years newer it would take a few more years before my 70km round trip to work becomes a problem. Actually, more range also makes it easier to charge to 80% and go easier on the battery. So what do you guys think? Is it worth it to get a 2013/2014 Gen 2 Leaf?

In many ways I'd like the 30kWh version, but they all seem to be up around $10k more again and that is a bit much for me.

I've been following this thread with some interest, even though I won't be buying an electric car in the near future unfortunately as I need a larger car with 4wd for some of the places / things I do but an electric car would have been an ideal commuter car.

I've just started the process of importing a new car for me, and have looked at some of the prices leafs are going for in Japan compared with the local prices. I would suggest that it may be worthwhile anyone looking at buying one also consider importing one from Japan (which is just what the dealer does).

Some examples using carwebs (no affiliation).

2016 24kwh grade 6 leaf with 2000km on it sold for 951000 yen would be ~19K + registration using their services.

Numerous 30x and 30g (which I assume are 30kw/h battery models, but, not sure) go for around 1200000yen (~22.6K + rego).

On top of this I would assume that you would have to investigate getting a new charging cable. There was some threads about changing a transformer in the charging lead to a 240V rated one, however, that would not be for everyone.

I know that @Talkiet wasn't too happy with carwebs when he used them, but, that may have just been a one off. I have heard other good things about them.

Edit - there are also the occasional rare bargains eg,

2015 X with 3000Km and grade 6. 708000 yen (~15.5K landed + rego).

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#1839611 5-Aug-2017 20:37

The growth of a fast charger network through out New Zealand over the past year has been awesome. It's now possible to drive almost any EV easily from Auckland to Wellington, either down SH1 or via SH5 to Napier and then down SH2.

I've done the trip via Napier a couple of times and would generally stay overnight in Napier and go on to Wellington the next day. That was partly because for both those trips Taupo did not yet have a fast charger and I had to charge for 3-4 hours at Central Motors (a.k.a. "EV Central") where they had a 32amp AC charger....the fastest in town at the time.

Since both those trips, Charge.Net and / or Unison have added a fast charger in Taupo (Unison) and fast chargers in Turangi, Waiouru and Mangaweka (Charge.Net). If you want to head to Napier, Unison have also added two more fast charger on the Napier-Taupo Road at Rangitaiki and Te Horoto. It's now easy to get from Taupo to Napier...and back...in any but the most humble old LEAFs. People with larger batteries now have stopping options. They won't need to stop at every charger....or even every second charger. A big-battery Tesla might charge only once on the way to Wellington.

Anyway....this week I decided to try it out, so on Thursday I drove down to Wellington and on Friday I drove back. I wasn't in a hurry....and often the car was ready to go before I was.

The trip down took 12 hours and 30 mins - from 06:15 at my house to arriving at the James Cook on The Terrace at 18:45.
The trip back took 12 hours and 10 minutes - from the James Cook on The Terrace at 09:10 to my house in Greenlane (Auckland) at 21:20.

I have a 2016 30kWh LEAF with a full battery. I have 35,000km on it, with 30,400 of those being mine since November, and the battery is still 100% as new.

Auckland to Wellington

On the way down, I drove from Greenlane, Auckland to the Charge.net fast charger at Victoria Park in Cambridge. I topped up to 95% there and then drove to Taupo direct down SH1. This was a bit risky as I had not driven it before, there was a strong easterly head wind.....and I had to climb from about 60m above sea level to over 600m...and whatever speed I was going to do had to bear in mind that 20-25kph head wind. Greenrace recokoned I do 100kph and arrive on 9% with a full battery. But Charge.Net only allow you to charge to 95%, so that meant I'd arrive in Taupo on 4%....if there was no wind. Clearly....to make it, I had to go slower than 100kph. With a 20kph head wind, that suggested I'd need to do about 80kph. You can't do 80kph on SH1 due to the volume of traffic, so I'd have to find a big truck to follow to reduce the impact of the wind.

That was easy. I got on the highway and then sat just after the Gull station east of Cambridge...and within 5 mins a big truck rolled by. Good....I stayed behind him at about 95-100kph and all was well...until he turned off a Tirau.

OK....well traffic was a bit lighter after than so I slowed down a bit - 90-ish - and kept going. That was fine until Putararu.....and the power looked like it was trending too low, so I slowed down a bit more - 85kph - and had a burst where I followed another truck...who soon pulled off.

By Tokoroa, with 60-odd kms left to go, I was looking OK, but tight. So slow down a bit more. I tried doing about 80kph - the head wind was very strong - and that helped. Fortunately, there was very little traffic mid-morning after Tokoroa so i could pretty much to whatever I needed to do. I stuck with 80kph with occasioanal dip to 70-75 on the longer, windier hills. At one point I had 28kms left to go and the car estimated it only had 20kms left.....but I knew there was a pretty good down hill run just before the junction with SH5 at Wairakei. That should get me through.

By the time I got the junction I was down to 1.2kWh of power and still had about 9.4km to go...and the hill between Wairakei and Taupo proper..... AllI had to do was get to the top of that hill and the regen down it should see me right for the flat run to the charger at the fire station. So I slowed right down to 50kph (on an 80kph zone) and stayed well to the left.....and went up the hill. Only 3 cars passed me, so I wasn't being a pain....

At the top of the hill I was down 0.9kWh (that's about 400 watts before turtle mode)....but I knew I was OK as I was going to make power all the way down the final hill. I arrived at the charger with the same 0.9kWh. I could have gone another 3-4km on the flat before I the turtle limited me to 40kph for the last 1-2km before full stop.

This may all sound pretty horrendous, but I knew what I was doing and made the adjustments to ensure I go there....and I got there. The LeafSpy app on my phone let me see constantly *exactly* where my energy was at and how fast I was using it. Much more precise than any petrol car I've ever driven. If there hadn't been a strong wind it would have been easier....if it had been raining it would have been worse. As it was, this was the only leg in the return trip - Wellington and back - that was marginal for my car.

I could have gone the alternate route from Cambridge to Rotorua, and charged there, but I wanted to save the extra half hour (at least) by going direct from Auckland to Taupo with just one 20 min charging stop in Cambridge...and I did. I also knew the return trip would be MUCH easier is it almost all downhill.

I charged to just 70% in Taupo as I wanted to stop in Turangi...and then drove 100kph to Turangi just 50km away. In Turangi, I charged for 12 mins to 80% - more than enough to do the leg to Waiouru, where I also wanted to stop. I'm a bit of a fast charger charger 'tourist'. Strictly speaking I could easily do Taupo to Waiouru in one hop on a 95% battery, but at the same time I'd not driven this way in my EV before so I was checking it all out.

The repeated fast charging was gradually warming my battery up, but the cold ambient temperatures (4C to 9C) were quickly cooling it down again. I was in the low to mid 40C range....and that's OK.

I drove to Waiouru at 100kph or better...and it was a stunning day. I stopped for a few photos on the way.

From Waiouru I want to Mangaweka. It's just under 50km....and pretty much all down hill. BIG hills. No power issues here. But I did stop at Mangaweka as I wanted to have lunch (It was about 2pm by this time) and also charge to 95% so I could drive directly to Otaki.

It's down hill so should be no issues...and it wasn't. I easily reached Otaki New World and the fast charger there with 12% to spare. That's 25km remaining, so no problem.

I charged to 80% at Otaki in 20mins and then drove into the Wellington and arrived on about 30%. The final charge at Otaki saw the battery briefly touch 50C, but it soon dropped back to the mid-40s. I didn't go into the red zone at all, so operating normally....though at top end. Six fast charges in one day will make a LEAF battery warm. :-) Better to keep them frequent and smaller....so they heat up less and you get a chance to cool off between charges as you drive.

That was Auckland to Wellington in 12 hours....done. No major problems. I could have taken another hour (or less) and gone via Rotorua, but didn't have to. Hopefully there will be a charger in Tokoroa soon to give a quick boost to anyone who needs it on the southward leg. The people who run Charge.Net are looking at it. They just need to find a site / host.

Wellington to Auckland

I wasn't able to charge at the hotel, so before I went to bed I went down the hill to the Z Station in Vivian St and used the fast charger there to top up. That way, I'd be full in the morning and battery would start off nice and cool.

I drove at about 100kph all the way (small towns on the way excepted, of course) to The Square in Palmerston North. I didn't stop at Otaki because the climb to 300+m to Mangaweka from Otaki would be marginal. Easy coming down.....a different thing going back up. From Palmerston North it's only 89km to Mangaweka (137 from Otaki).

I got to Mangaweka no problems at 100kph. Had lunch again at the Papa Cliff Cafe (where the charger is located). I charged to 80% in a few minutes. The car was done long before my lunch was.

After Mangaweka you have to climb from 300m to over 800m in less than 40km. There are some long, steep climbs. But charged to 80% and only 40km to go, I did 100-110kph wherever possible. It was great swooshing up the hills silently while other vehicles were roaring away, some pouring out loads of smoke as they went.

I charged to 80% at Waiouru in 16 mins and went on to Turangi. I could have gone straight to Taupo on a full charge, but stopped in Turangi for 12 mins to charge back to 80% again.

In Taupo, I charged to 100% - the ABB chargers let you do it - and then left for Cambridge. The return leg to Cambridge is downhill...so I drove at 100kph and got there with 30% remaining. A HUGE difference to the same route in the uphill direction.

In Cambridge I charged to 80% to save time (took 16 mins from 30% to 80%). I then drove to Te Kauwhata and charged in 12 mins to 70% for the final leg to my house. It had been a long day and I was happy to have frequent, short breaks to get out of the car and stretch.

Summary

The growth of the charger network has made it possible for even very modest electric cars to make these longer trips without concern. It's only going to get better as new chargers open and cars with bigger batteries come along. The 2018 Nissan LEAF is supposed to have at least a 40kWh battery....so the range of that should be at least 200km uphill into the wind and more usually 250km-300km for city driving.

But the main thing for me was the ability to drive from Auckland to Wellington - or vice versa - in half a day. I'd never done that before. So in theory it should be no issue to leave Auckland at 6am and to Wellington in time for the 20:30 ferry sailing to Picton....and get to Nelson that night.

That is awesome....and it's just the start. :-)

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#1839615 5-Aug-2017 20:52

dolsen:

MarkH67:

OK, I have more questions & thoughts:

I'm thinking about upping my budget a bit and spending $16-18k on a Gen 2 Leaf. I kinda want a newer nicer car and also I'm thinking with a bit more range and a couple of years newer it would take a few more years before my 70km round trip to work becomes a problem. Actually, more range also makes it easier to charge to 80% and go easier on the battery. So what do you guys think? Is it worth it to get a 2013/2014 Gen 2 Leaf?

In many ways I'd like the 30kWh version, but they all seem to be up around $10k more again and that is a bit much for me.

I've been following this thread with some interest, even though I won't be buying an electric car in the near future unfortunately as I need a larger car with 4wd for some of the places / things I do but an electric car would have been an ideal commuter car.

I've just started the process of importing a new car for me, and have looked at some of the prices leafs are going for in Japan compared with the local prices. I would suggest that it may be worthwhile anyone looking at buying one also consider importing one from Japan (which is just what the dealer does).

Some examples using carwebs (no affiliation).

2016 24kwh grade 6 leaf with 2000km on it sold for 951000 yen would be ~19K + registration using their services.

Numerous 30x and 30g (which I assume are 30kw/h battery models, but, not sure) go for around 1200000yen (~22.6K + rego).

On top of this I would assume that you would have to investigate getting a new charging cable. There was some threads about changing a transformer in the charging lead to a 240V rated one, however, that would not be for everyone.

I know that @Talkiet wasn't too happy with carwebs when he used them, but, that may have just been a one off. I have heard other good things about them.

Edit - there are also the occasional rare bargains eg,

2015 X with 3000Km and grade 6. 708000 yen (~15.5K landed + rego).

You can get some good bargains this way, but there are also risks. It is possible, as @RUKI has mentioned, to 'fiddle' the battery stats and make the car look a lot better than it is. You won't find out this has been done until you've been driving it for a few days or weeks and find out the range you're actually getting isn't the range you'd expect....and the car will gradually reset itself to what it can actually do. In one case that's come up in the past few days a woman bought an "11 bar LEAF" (so battery 78% to 84%) in a private sale. After a week of driving the car dropped a bunch of bars and it now a 8 bar LEAF.....with about 60% capacity. That's a range of about 70km. Not what she paid for. The vendor is now not answering the phone.

It's best to buy a car from a major importer (AutoLink, GVI, EV Central, Volt Vehicles, PlugnDriveMan, to ame just a few) just so you know they are able to give you another car entirely if THEY got caught out, though they tend to buy only from trusted sources.

Separately, a LEAF with low kms is actually a BAD thing. The Li-ION batteries are in best condition if used frequently. A car with a low kms that's 2-3 years old has been sitting around in some unknown state (Low charge? High charge? Inside? Outside?) that may not have been good for the battery.

Unlike cars with the 'splodey petrol engines, an EV is best when used several times / week and has a moderate amount of kms on it (5000 / year at least?). This way, you know the battery has been used and will be "happier'. The motor itself has no explosions in it like in a petrol or diesel engine.....and wear and tear is minimal. It's a magnetic field turning a shaft. The motor will outlast the car.

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#1839616 5-Aug-2017 20:53

Linuxluver:

The growth of a fast charger network through out New Zealand over the past years has been awesome. It's now possible to drive almost any EV easily from Auckland to Wellington, either down SH1 or via SH5 to Napier and then down SH2.

What was the temperature during your trip, and how do you find the performance go when the temperature is generally below zero?

Linuxluver

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#1839618 5-Aug-2017 21:06

jfanning:

Linuxluver:

The growth of a fast charger network through out New Zealand over the past years has been awesome. It's now possible to drive almost any EV easily from Auckland to Wellington, either down SH1 or via SH5 to Napier and then down SH2.

What was the temperature during your trip, and how do you find the performance go when the temperature is generally below zero?

The only temperature you need to worry about is the battery temperature. The performance of the car is the same under pretty much any conditions in the normal range (-20C to +40C), but the range it can roll will vary as the temperature affects the charge in the battery.

I started out with the battery at about 16C. It wan't cold in Auckland and I had charged the car overnight, so it was slightly warmer than ambient.

Once you've driven at 100kph for half an hour the battery will have warmed up 2-3 degrees.....even if it's cold outside. The first time you fast charge it will warm up into the 20s....and at that point it is near optimal temperature (27C) to reach maximum range. Basically, as you've run through your first (home charge) and completed your first fast charge (to 80% or beyond) the battery will be a pretty close to optimal temperature. Performance should be the same as a summer day.....even if it is pretty cold outside.

In a way, the cold weather is better. Had i driven to Wellington in the summer with ambient temps in the 20s or even 30s I may have found my battery wasn't cooling enough between charges and I may have had to park it somewhere breezy and shadey for an hour or so to cool down so I could fast charge it again. Slow charging doesn't warm up the battery much. But putting 50kw into it every hour or two - and driving at 100kph in between, pulling 20-40kw - can get the battery nice and toasty....and keep it that way.

What I've been told is the battery can be damaged at 60C or above.....and the car will simply refuse to charge once it reaches about 55C.....it just stops and you can't make it.

But AC charging can be done and the battery will actually cool down as it charges. So if i got too hot, but needed to charge I'd consider a stop in a campground for an hour or two to let me do some charging...and at the same time cool down. Then, when I do fast charge again, I don't need to as much.

This is a LEAF thing. Cars like the Tesla actively manage the battery temp....and they can use 6kw of power to do it......(warming or heating). If you have 100kWh battery that's fine....you have the power spare.

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I've been on Geekzone over 16 years..... Time flies....

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