EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

1 | ... | 553 | 554 | 555 | 556 | 557 | 558 | 559 | 560 | 561 | 562 | 563 | ... | 771

8865 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9545

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#3030458 1-Feb-2023 16:21

Jaxson:

gzt: Please stay on EVs in this topic. There is another for hybrids or you may create one for your question.

What's the current state of play around battery replacements for older EVs, likes of leafs or even Hybrids like say a 2012 Mitsi Outlander etc?
Has there been any progress on this, as last I looked into this you were talking $10,000 - $30,000 for replacement batter packs.

In theory EV's Enhanced will be releasing their new Leaf battery in the next couple of months, but their only hints at pricing suggest it will be in the mid-$20Ks. There has been plenty of discussion on that in this and the Leaf thread.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

jarledb

Webhead
3319 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1983

Moderator

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3030468 1-Feb-2023 16:38

jonathan18: I’m keen on Tesla adding in non-SC chargers to their database, as they have done (or are looking to do?) in some markets so as to allow better trip planning and - more usefully - preconditioning.

There seems to be a consensus on some of the Tesla Facebook groups that pre-conditioning the Tesla for charging doesn't make much difference if you are going to charge on a 50kW or 75kW charger. So for most of the chargers in NZ it won't make much difference to charging speed wether they are on the map or not.

Still want third-party chargers like ChargeNet, Z and BP to be available in the map. And wouldn't mind it pre-conditioning either. Because I would expect we will be seeing more high power rapid chargers as more and more EVs come on the NZ roads.

Jarle Dahl Bergersen | Referral Links: Want $50 off when you join Octopus Energy? Use this referral code
Are you happy with what you get from Geekzone? Please consider supporting us by making a donation or subscribing.

everettpsycho

668 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 270

#3030505 1-Feb-2023 18:39

Jaxson:
gzt: Please stay on EVs in this topic. There is another for hybrids or you may create one for your question.

What's the current state of play around battery replacements for older EVs, likes of leafs or even Hybrids like say a 2012 Mitsi Outlander etc?
Has there been any progress on this, as last I looked into this you were talking $10,000 - $30,000 for replacement batter packs.

Realistically that price will still hold true. The price of battery tech might have come down but the price of the lithium in them has shot up. The only car I've seen replacements be a thing for is the leafs and even a used 40kWh pack is up in that price range. Be interesting to see what EVs enhanced get theirs out for but they have said about a third of the price of a new leaf, so about $20k, minus whatever they will pay you for your old pack.

HarmLessSolutions

1228 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 810

Subscriber

#3030512 1-Feb-2023 19:01

everettpsycho:
Jaxson:

What's the current state of play around battery replacements for older EVs, likes of leafs or even Hybrids like say a 2012 Mitsi Outlander etc?
Has there been any progress on this, as last I looked into this you were talking $10,000 - $30,000 for replacement batter packs.

Realistically that price will still hold true. The price of battery tech might have come down but the price of the lithium in them has shot up. The only car I've seen replacements be a thing for is the leafs and even a used 40kWh pack is up in that price range. Be interesting to see what EVs enhanced get theirs out for but they have said about a third of the price of a new leaf, so about $20k, minus whatever they will pay you for your old pack.

IMO EVs Enhanced are in danger of 'missing the boat' the longer they delay in bringing their replacement batteries to the market. New EVs continue to reduce in cost and realistically who in their right mind would invest $20K+ into an older Leaf when a little more than double that you can buy a new BYD or MG with far more advanced tech, and the price differential is closing by the month.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3030514 1-Feb-2023 19:09

everettpsycho:

Realistically that price will still hold true. The price of battery tech might have come down but the price of the lithium in them has shot up. The only car I've seen replacements be a thing for is the leafs and even a used 40kWh pack is up in that price range. Be interesting to see what EVs enhanced get theirs out for but they have said about a third of the price of a new leaf, so about $20k, minus whatever they will pay you for your old pack.

I favour green energy. But sitting on the fence, ICE can run for hundreds of thousands of km these days. The get rid of it price doesnt matter. EV's yes im keen as, but the public will think at 100k or 150k is it worth $120? If an ICE went 100k or 150k and it was screwed, full engine rebuild , than thats also worth zilch. Just being devils advocate, its not what I think or EV fans think (and I am one), its what the masses think. Personally, we all have battery devices, they wear out. Easy grab a new iPhone. But if the EV powertrain falls short, as in range, it "may" become a liability, snd of sale wise. Not unlike Solar PV (and I am a fan but cannot get it) you pour money into it, takes many years to recover the cost, and you winder why did we do that.

Devils Advocate, not anti. Should batteries or battery swaps become a lot cheaper, no issue. And we have non Coballt/Lithium options on the horizon, as in Panasoncs Solid State battery

everettpsycho

668 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 270

#3030517 1-Feb-2023 19:13

HarmLessSolutions:
IMO EVs Enhanced are in danger of 'missing the boat' the longer they delay in bringing their replacement batteries to the market. New EVs continue to reduce in cost and realistically who in their right mind would invest $20K+ into an older Leaf when a little more than double that you can buy a new BYD or MG with far more advanced tech, and the price differential is closing by the month.

They really are, the hope is with the homework they've done swapping out the cells themselves to other chemistries or tech will be easier. So if something like sodium batteries do come to market at a lower price they might be able to adapt a bit quicker than they have building this first model and bring the price down in the material cost. I still think they should partner with a electrical installer or solar company and offer an add on installing your old pack as a house battery if it's possible. $20k for a new car battery isn't cheap but if a bit more gets you a brand new 40kWh leaf battery and whatever you had before can run your home I'd really consider the upgrade more as I'd at least be recouping some money using the house battery.

Dell

Shop now for Dell laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

Obraik

2167 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1347

#3030546 1-Feb-2023 20:56

jarledb:

jonathan18: I’m keen on Tesla adding in non-SC chargers to their database, as they have done (or are looking to do?) in some markets so as to allow better trip planning and - more usefully - preconditioning.

There seems to be a consensus on some of the Tesla Facebook groups that pre-conditioning the Tesla for charging doesn't make much difference if you are going to charge on a 50kW or 75kW charger. So for most of the chargers in NZ it won't make much difference to charging speed wether they are on the map or not.

Still want third-party chargers like ChargeNet, Z and BP to be available in the map. And wouldn't mind it pre-conditioning either. Because I would expect we will be seeing more high power rapid chargers as more and more EVs come on the NZ roads.

This was kinda fixed a few updates back when they stopped the car wasting time heating the pack when DC charging on 25, 50 and 75kW chargers. Instead, it starts charging at the max speed right away.

Preconditioning will still be useful for the Hyperchargers and the 100+kW chargers the petrol stations are starting to add.

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

everettpsycho

668 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 270

#3033101 7-Feb-2023 21:41

Seems a dealer in Wellington is listing the ora good cat at $49990+ORC so in line with the likes of mg and byd for a similar battery spec to those. Doesn't seem to be any details on when it's coming on their page though.

https://brendanfoot.co.nz/vehicles/ora-good-cat/

GV27

5977 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#3033174 8-Feb-2023 06:16

everettpsycho:

I still think they should partner with a electrical installer or solar company and offer an add on installing your old pack as a house battery if it's possible. $20k for a new car battery isn't cheap but if a bit more gets you a brand new 40kWh leaf battery and whatever you had before can run your home I'd really consider the upgrade more as I'd at least be recouping some money using the house battery.

IMO the credit for the old cells is the only way it's going to be affordable for a whole heap of people.

E: And really, the credit will be the main driver for me, I've got a 2021 car with a decent battery that I'd gladly swap for LFP that I can use regularly/abuse like any other EV (even if it is just at 50kw charging) but if the quoted price of 1/3rd a new Leaf is where they pull up then I'll need every cent to get it over the line.

kingdragonfly

11989 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12874

Subscriber

#3033412 8-Feb-2023 12:41

everettpsycho: Seems a dealer in Wellington is listing the ora good cat at $49990+ORC so in line with the likes of mg and byd for a similar battery spec to those. Doesn't seem to be any details on when it's coming on their page though.

https://brendanfoot.co.nz/vehicles/ora-good-cat/

In the past, I had a bad experience with Brendan Foot. They insisted I give my mobile number to test drive a car, but I told them not to call me in no uncertain words. And of course, salesmen started calling me.

On the other hand, they do carry cars not typically seen in NZ.

Jaxson

8172 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1332

Trusted

#3033417 8-Feb-2023 13:00

GV27:

everettpsycho:

I still think they should partner with a electrical installer or solar company and offer an add on installing your old pack as a house battery if it's possible.

IMO the credit for the old cells is the only way it's going to be affordable for a whole heap of people.

Really needs to be in the $10,000 or less price range to be attractive.

Purchasing a car around the $50 - $80k range, with another $20k to come in same 6 - 10 years doesn't sound particularly appealing.

I can only see a significant battery trade in, or something that brings the outlay down to $10k or less working here.

Given Trademe etc is full of leafs, this will need addressing quickly.
Also should really be part of an import process. If you can't support the vehicle over it's lifetime then that's potentially going to create a future disposal/wastage issue.

AliExpress

Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

GV27

5977 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#3033420 8-Feb-2023 13:04

Jaxson:

Given Trademe etc is full of leafs, this will need addressing quickly.
Also should really be part of an import process. If you can't support the vehicle over it's lifetime then that's potentially going to create a future disposal/wastage issue.

We allow plenty of grey market/personal imports with no factory support. Can't see why EVs should be treated any differently or held to a higher standard. Case in point, my funreliable Mini Cooper S, with no warranty but tendency to nuke fuel pumps and timing chains.

I'm just hoping the chance for ZE1s comes along quickly as I have a relatively healthy battery to offer for credit in the short term and I'm conscious it may not stay that way.

HarmLessSolutions

1228 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 810

Subscriber

#3033422 8-Feb-2023 13:19

Jaxson:

Really needs to be in the $10,000 or less price range to be attractive.

Purchasing a car around the $50 - $80k range, with another $20k to come in same 6 - 10 years doesn't sound particularly appealing.

I can only see a significant battery trade in, or something that brings the outlay down to $10k or less working here.

Given Trademe etc is full of leafs, this will need addressing quickly.
Also should really be part of an import process. If you can't support the vehicle over it's lifetime then that's potentially going to create a future disposal/wastage issue.

Your assumption that Leaf battery degradation rates applies to all EVs is incorrect. The lack of active thermal management in Leafs (as well as older battery chemistry) sets them apart from what is to be expected from most current models of EV.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Jaxson

8172 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1332

Trusted

#3033577 8-Feb-2023 16:24

HarmLessSolutions:

Your assumption that Leaf battery degradation rates applies to all EVs is incorrect.

Not assuming that at all, just commenting on the significant number of these already in NZ.

Quick check on Trademe for electric cars under $20,000 shows 475 results.
Of these 462 are Nissans.

Jaxson

8172 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1332

Trusted

#3033580 8-Feb-2023 16:28

GV27:

We allow plenty of grey market/personal imports with no factory support. Can't see why EVs should be treated any differently or held to a higher standard.

Comment only really, this is a very different technology from traditional ICE cars, so there's an opportunity to shape what the future looks like in NZ around this.
If we're purchasing and importing older second hand electric vehicles from other countries, with a known degradation and longevity issue with earlier versions, then this could potentially lead to a future waste issue.
(Unless there is an economical battery replacement and renewal option, or some alternative widespread use / recycle option for the battery components.)

1 | ... | 553 | 554 | 555 | 556 | 557 | 558 | 559 | 560 | 561 | 562 | 563 | ... | 771