EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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altered-ego
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#3305356 4-Nov-2024 23:47

Handsomedan: ... as to why I am not 100% certain that EV's are the way of the future for the masses ...

Agreed. Right now, you do have to do the numbers & see if an EV is the right tool for the job. I also believe it will stay that way for a good while.

Handsomedan: ... Gas stations are plentiful and ...

... We've had a century or more of drive. Stop. Fill up. Move on. ...

Agreed, the petrol industry is 5 times as old as the EV industry. I'm waiting to see what the EV industry will be like in a 100 years. I believe the EV industry will pass that equivalence milestone a lot sooner.

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#3305359 5-Nov-2024 00:30

ANglEAUT:

Handsomedan: ... as to why I am not 100% certain that EV's are the way of the future for the masses ...

Agreed. Right now, you do have to do the numbers & see if an EV is the right tool for the job. I also believe it will stay that way for a good while.

Handsomedan: ... Gas stations are plentiful and ...

... We've had a century or more of drive. Stop. Fill up. Move on. ...

Agreed, the petrol industry is 5 times as old as the EV industry. I'm waiting to see what the EV industry will be like in a 100 years. I believe the EV industry will pass that equivalence milestone a lot sooner.

In the days of the Model T, motorists stuck in the mud were often told to "get a horse!"

EVs appear to be just exiting a similar stage.

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#3305361 5-Nov-2024 01:44

HarmLessSolutions:
dafman:

......But this is some years off. In the interim, I love my current ICE experience but likely will be tempted to shift into a hybrid next time around for the greater the fuel and emission savings.

By then the levying of distance based RUCs on petrol cars, including hybrids, will have severely eroded the 'fuel' saving advantages. Just saying.

EVs attract the same RUC as ICE and rightly so. Both types are using the same road. There is no change coming to this.

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#3305362 5-Nov-2024 01:49

dafman:

Filling up my ICE takes 5 mins once fortnight on average (combo shop & fill up at Paknsave) versus plugging and unplugging 14 times over the fortnight.

If you are filling your ICE once every 14 days you won't have to worry about plugging in your EV a lot. That said, some people like the flexibility of having a lot of range. And plugging in your EV takes you just a few seconds. It is REALLY easy.

If (or when) the Chinese significantly extend range and shorten charging times - and the charging infrastructure scales up to match - then yes, I will probably be enticed to switch. But this is some years off.

A lot of ICE drivers seem to think that you have to treat an EV like you do an ICE car, and go to a charging station to fuel up. That is not needed.

In countries where EVs are more prevalent than in NZ there are now charging available on city streets, in apartment buildings etc.

Even if you are in a situation where you don't have access to charging where you live, its not a big hurdle to charge at the supermarket while you are shopping etc. (Talking about abroad, not as common here yet).

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MarkH67

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#3305380 5-Nov-2024 05:40

dafman:

Filling up my ICE takes 5 mins once fortnight on average (combo shop & fill up at Paknsave) versus plugging and unplugging 14 times over the fortnight. Is my life particularly more onerous, not really (and possibly even less onerous).

Fueling once for every 14 charging sessions? It would be no big deal to charge every 300km with plenty of the current EV offerings, so are you driving 4,200km every fortnight? More realistic would be to plug in your EV once a week instead of filling your old fashioned car with petrol once a fortnight. I used to travel 72km per day for my commute and I did charge every night - but that was with a 24kWh Nissan Leaf. There are definitely modern EVs that would handle the same commute on one charge per week.

Of course you could choose to plug in the charger every day when you get home from work, but then you gain something compared to the petrol burner, you would have a 'fill tank of gas' every day when you wake up - you would not have that with your fortnightly fill of petrol!

HarmLessSolutions

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#3305438 5-Nov-2024 07:55

johno1234:
HarmLessSolutions:

By then the levying of distance based RUCs on petrol cars, including hybrids, will have severely eroded the 'fuel' saving advantages. Just saying.

EVs attract the same RUC as ICE and rightly so. Both types are using the same road. There is no change coming to this.

My point is in regard to the economics of hybrids. Currently non-plugin hybrids pay RUCs by way of their petrol's FET but FET reaches equivalency with RUCs for light vehicles when they consume 9.5L/100km. Hybrids often use much less fuel than that so are getting a cheap drive on the RUCs they are paying, as are economical conventional ICEVs so distance based RUCs are required to redress the balance and these are planned within the next couple of years. That will significantly change the economics for low consumption ICEs including hybrid.

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#3305482 5-Nov-2024 11:34

I think as I have come from a standard ICE Hybrid (non Plug In) my expectations are somewhat different to the average EV driver.

Also, the fact that I didn't choose to go fully electric is a consideration too. There's a certain amount of mental resistance there from the outset.

But I stick to my original statement that for the average driver, the convenience and infrastructure is not yet there.
The fact that there are "rules" around what should and shouldn't be done at a public charger (of which there are too few) when on a long trip - "don't charge over 80%", "Don't top it right off before your next leg, you only need enough to get home" etc proves the point - coming from ICE, where you simply rock up, fill up and move on, it's a whole lot of learning, compromise and hassle.
My experience was admittedly over a long weekend and was a specific case, but it was neither convenient, nor intuitive.

With that said - for my normal weekly driving, I use my home charger and it's probably used once a week if not maybe twice. Only if I know I'll be doing more mileage will I top it up to 100% the night before.
The home charger is pretty slow, but it's cheap and I get reimbursed as it's a company car. That part doesn't bother me in the slightest - in fact I really like having a gas station at home.

The choice of actual vehicle though...yeah, nah. I wouldn't ever buy an Atto3. The least comfortable car I have ever had. It also has many compromises and design fails for my liking.

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richms

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#3305502 5-Nov-2024 11:52

How many average drivers are driving to the other end of the island all the time tho? Saying a car is not suitable for a seldom if at all situation is not really a reasonable thing IMO.

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Handsomedan

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#3305527 5-Nov-2024 12:13

richms:

How many average drivers are driving to the other end of the island all the time tho? Saying a car is not suitable for a seldom if at all situation is not really a reasonable thing IMO.

I disagree. And I am not talking about the other end of the island - I am talking about the middle at best.

The average NZ family will go away at least a couple of times a year - maybe at the absolute least, once in the summer.
Things like sports and long weekends tend to take people out of town.

Speaking from my own experience and that of the vast majority of my social circle, a trip for a few hundred KM is not that uncommon.
My son plays football - the league spans Taupo to Kerikeri. Maybe three trips a year to those distances, with shorter ones included more often.
I mountain bike - trips to Rotorua or out to 440 bike park in the South East of Auckland/Waikato border from my North Shore home are not uncommon.
Regular visits to places like Tauranga/Mt Maunganui are common (by regular, I mean 2-3 times a year).
People with holiday homes, family out of town etc...are they not average kiwis?

Remember - with public transport improvements and the rising cost of fuel and living, one car could become the norm again for a family - if they choose an EV, they will be making compromises. You simply can't argue against it.
What they will get in return is far cheaper motoring (and far quieter). They'll also not stink up the planet quite so much.

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#3305529 5-Nov-2024 12:30

dafman:

Filling up my ICE takes 5 mins once fortnight on average (combo shop & fill up at Paknsave) versus plugging and unplugging 14 times over the fortnight.

This is a ridiculous comparison. There's no need to plug in every single day unles you're doing more than 200-300km each day (which the majority of people won't be), or you drive a clapped out 24kWh Leaf.

I plug in twice a week at home, and I drive 70km each day (RWD Model 3). It takes a few extra seconds to plug in and then leave it overnight. If I happen to be on a roadtrip away from home, then I charge somewhere that I can also have a feed/loo stop. There is no time spent just waiting for the car to charge, it's always ready before I am.

And with the constant addition of DC fast charging locations around the country, you hardly have to go out of your way to find a decent charging spot, and this will only improve.

alasta

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#3305531 5-Nov-2024 12:32

In a typical year I would do the following leisure trips to and from Wellington:

New Plymouth
Nelson
Napier
Taupo
Hanmer Springs
Christchurch

I also did a trip to Warbirds Over Wanaka this year.

Beyond that my car only gets used once or twice a week to do the groceries or take the dogs out. I walk/run or take the bus for most of my daily transport. It's also worth noting that I can't charge an electric car at home.

I don't know how typical my usage is, but it is disingenuous for electric vehicle owners to suggest that everyone has a perfect use case.

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jonathan18

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#3305537 5-Nov-2024 12:46

alasta:

In a typical year I would do the following leisure trips to and from Wellington:

New Plymouth
Nelson
Napier
Taupo
Hanmer Springs
Christchurch
I also did a trip to Warbirds Over Wanaka this year.

I’m not sure what this list adds other than providing an opportunity to point out that all those trips are completely and easily do-able in an EV from Wellington.

Many of us here have more than proven the ability to take long road trips in an EV. We’ve done a 3k km SI trip, multiple PN<>Akld trips, to Napier, to New Plymouth… In all of those trips I have had to wait a grand total of ONE TIME for a charger - and that was Taupo, before the new Tesla chargers went in at Rainbow Point.

(Note this is a totally separate issue to that of having home charging available; I too wouldn’t own an EV if I wasn’t able to charge at home.)

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#3305540 5-Nov-2024 12:58

Handsomedan:
I think as I have come from a standard ICE Hybrid (non Plug In) my expectations are somewhat different to the average EV driver.

Also, the fact that I didn't choose to go fully electric is a consideration too. There's a certain amount of mental resistance there from the outset.

But I stick to my original statement that for the average driver, the convenience and infrastructure is not yet there.
The fact that there are "rules" around what should and shouldn't be done at a public charger (of which there are too few) when on a long trip - "don't charge over 80%", "Don't top it right off before your next leg, you only need enough to get home" etc proves the point - coming from ICE, where you simply rock up, fill up and move on, it's a whole lot of learning, compromise and hassle.
My experience was admittedly over a long weekend and was a specific case, but it was neither convenient, nor intuitive.

With that said - for my normal weekly driving, I use my home charger and it's probably used once a week if not maybe twice. Only if I know I'll be doing more mileage will I top it up to 100% the night before.
The home charger is pretty slow, but it's cheap and I get reimbursed as it's a company car. That part doesn't bother me in the slightest - in fact I really like having a gas station at home.

The choice of actual vehicle though...yeah, nah. I wouldn't ever buy an Atto3. The least comfortable car I have ever had. It also has many compromises and design fails for my liking.

Rode in an Atto uber yesterday. The driver loves it. I commented on the guitar string door pockets and when we got out he played the “Smoke on the Water” riff on them - no kidding it was spot on!

sen8or

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#3305542 5-Nov-2024 13:03

I think if you are looking for a reason to go with (or not go with) an EV, you'll find it. I'm fortunate that I can charge at home making it both affordable ($7-9 per week + RUCs) and convenient. If you can't charge at home (or at work) then that would add to the cost considerably and the inconvenience factor would be a hurdle.

I'm not convinced that PHEV is the way to go, I had one for about 2 months and had to charge it most days to use the EV motor (50km per day to/from work). The faff factor was much higher in the PHEV than pure EV.

I did have a mild hybrid for a few months also (Jolion), this was a good mix of useable EV mode (getting to/from CHCH motorway in town) and a standard petrol engine for normal motoring. It wasn't unusual to see 800 - 900kms from its 50l tank.

I find myself simply enjoying the feel of an EV now, the lack of engine noise / vibration and the feel of the power is completely different. Ofcourse, if they could get a realistic 5l V8 rumble out of the exhaust like my old Senator had, then I'd be all for that :)

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#3305543 5-Nov-2024 13:04

johno1234:
Rode in an Atto uber yesterday. The driver loves it. I commented on the guitar string door pockets and when we got out he played the “Smoke on the Water” riff on them - no kidding it was spot on!

My right rear door is perfectly tuned for Smoke on the Water. Driver's door is off on one string. The others are wildly out of tune and need some attention.

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