EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#3309044 14-Nov-2024 17:26

GV27:

HarmLessSolutions:

Does the Mach-E not come with a 'granny charger' included?

Famously, no.

Correct.

There was some drama at launch.

Ford NZ advertised that the car came with a domestic socket type charge cable, but Ford North America (ie head office in Detroit) would not authorise a three-pin plug trickle charger for distributor-supplied Mach-E sold new in NZ and Australia. So the car got a type 2 to type 2 cable instead....

https://www.motoringnz.com/news/2023/5/26/mach-e-recharging-issue-raised

Not great for those who placed launch orders as a type 2 to type 2 cable is worth $200 - $300 less than a domestic socket charger, but given ford NZ has removed all reference to the domestic charger, it's not an issue for people buying now. One can simply source their own 3rd party domestic socket charger for ~$500 if they really want one.

Scott3

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#3309051 14-Nov-2024 17:45

Handsomedan:

jonathan18: Well, I’ve read and watched some content comparing the Mach-E and the Model Y and have found enough reason to put and end to my interest in swapping the (slow version of the) latter for the (super-fast version of the) former - interior space.

I didn’t realise that rear passenger room is more generous in the Y - both in terms of width (wider; more comfortable for three across) and leg room. I’ve got two teenage boys so this is important. Similarly, the significantly larger boot of the Y is something we couldn’t give up at the moment.

Oh well, it was a nice idea while it lasted! Bring on the kids leaving home and I won’t have the same need to prioritise capacity… but if that’s the case I can then go for an EV hatch or - hopefully - wagon!

How big is the difference (in real-world terms)? Just curious.

The Mach e is a fairly big car.

I rented one for a work trip (instead of a Niro electric) as we were expecting to have 4 adults ended up having only three. The person in the back seat had heaps of space, but they were fairly small and I never tried it myself.

Sculpting of the back seat is such that it makes the middle seat look somewhat unattractive.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Review 2024 | GRIDSERVE

Generally the body shape seems to put styling as the top priority. Long bonnet, and coupe body shape.

In terms of cargo space, we didn't have much, it is respectable, but not class leading. In a popular youtubers test, it fit 8 Banana boxes in the boot + 1 in the Frunk (for comparison a model Y is 9+1, a Kia EV6 is 8+0, a Enyaq iV is 10+0)

[edit] - should note that ford hasn't bothered to rate the Mach-e for towing in NZ (it gets a 1500kg rating in the UK). Not required by law in NZ to follow manufacturer tow limits, but this will be a dealbreaker for some.

exador

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#3309054 14-Nov-2024 17:56

Scott3:

There is no way a 198kW RWD Med-Large 5 seat SUV should be selling for the same price as a top spec corolla hybrid (103kW FWD), but here we are.

Which is why I pounced ;)

Don't feel too sorry for Ford. I imagine the profits on all those Rangers more than offsets the losses on Mach-E's...

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#3309227 15-Nov-2024 07:59

exador:

Which is why I pounced ;)

Don't feel too sorry for Ford. I imagine the profits on all those Rangers more than offsets the losses on Mach-E's...

They did it to themselves. They were amongst the most vocal critics of the clean car scheme.

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HarmLessSolutions

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#3309263 15-Nov-2024 09:51

exador:

Scott3:

There is no way a 198kW RWD Med-Large 5 seat SUV should be selling for the same price as a top spec corolla hybrid (103kW FWD), but here we are.

Which is why I pounced ;)

Don't feel too sorry for Ford. I imagine the profits on all those Rangers more than offsets the losses on Mach-E's...

Ford are surviving on their commercial vehicle sales, F150 in North America, Ranger in our neck of the woods but internationally I suspect they're struggling like the rest of the legacy brands. Jim Farley has said as much publicly of late and has been very honest in the challenges Ford (and others) are facing from an onslaught of Chinese products.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Scott3

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#3309267 15-Nov-2024 10:01

exador:

Scott3:

There is no way a 198kW RWD Med-Large 5 seat SUV should be selling for the same price as a top spec corolla hybrid (103kW FWD), but here we are.

Which is why I pounced ;)

Don't feel too sorry for Ford. I imagine the profits on all those Rangers more than offsets the losses on Mach-E's...

I'm more concerned about the wider implications of the volitivity sales to brands willingness to bring EV's in volume to the NZ market. It is a fair assumption that ford NZ is going to be extremely gunshy about placing big EV orders, given this experience of having to drop their pants on pricing...

Must be increasingly tempting for Ford NZ to reduce their lineup down to: Ranger, Everest, Mustang V8, Transit, Transit Custom.

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SaltyNZ

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#3309278 15-Nov-2024 10:24

Scott3:

I'm more concerned about the wider implications of the volitivity sales to brands willingness to bring EV's in volume to the NZ market.

Shrug That's what we voted for.

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#3309280 15-Nov-2024 10:26

Scott3:

I'm more concerned about the wider implications of the volitivity sales to brands willingness to bring EV's in volume to the NZ market. It is a fair assumption that ford NZ is going to be extremely gunshy about placing big EV orders, given this experience of having to drop their pants on pricing...

Yeah, Although while NZ is at the really pointy end of EV sales shrinkage, its not solely down to the change in policy here.

In Au,overall sales are down 25% Y/Y

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/battery-powered-electric-vehicle-sales-plunge-by-25-as-australian-drivers-choose-hybrid-models

Mach-E sales in OZ are crawling too,

"Mustang Mach-E has sold just 544 units in all of 2024 according to VFACTS September figures."
https://techau.com.au/dealers-slashing-thousands-off-fords-mustang-mach-e-prices/

in NZ the number in YTD sales in September were 213, That's in a country 1/5 the size with GDP/head 33% lower,

https://www.mia.org.nz/DesktopModules/EasyDNNNews/DocumentDownload.ashx?portalid=0&moduleid=845&articleid=1412&documentid=2759

Scott3

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#3309303 15-Nov-2024 10:41

HarmLessSolutions:

Ford are surviving on their commercial vehicle sales, F150 in North America, Ranger in our neck of the woods but internationally I suspect they're struggling like the rest of the legacy brands. Jim Farley has said as much publicly of late and has been very honest in the challenges Ford (and others) are facing from an onslaught of Chinese products.

Ford has serious issues in the USA. November stats from car edge have them at 152 days supply. Industry ideal is 30 days stock on hand, currently Toyota is sitting at 41 days (despite engine recalls on some models), so ford is in a bad spot (but not as bad as Stellanis's brands)

While the F150 is still a big seller, Ford produces them in mass, that that is dragging that number up. Note the below list is ranked by total & truncated. So lower volume models like the Mach-e don't appear.

https://caredge.com/guides/new-car-inventory-2024

The crux of the issue for ford is they decided back in 2018 to stop making "cars" (sedans, wagons & Hatchbacks, excl the Mustang) at least in the USA, Essentially chasing the market trend's towards SUV's and pick up trucks. This enabled them to divert their R&D teams from cars like the focus & fusion/mondeo, to models like the maverick & bronco.

Coupled in with this decision, was a decision for ford to move from building "commodity" vehicles to building unique, special vehicles.

Initially this move was a massive success. With the flood of post covid money (and very good money peoples trade in's would sell for), cars like the maverick, Bronco and F-150 lightening had extremely long wait times (or huge dealer markups). And buyers were willing to pay big money to get the top packages (Raptor etc).

But now the coil has flipped, Money is tight (especially for those shopping with a $/month finance budget), used cars have dropped in value to the point that many in the USA are underwater (car worth less than loan value) on their car loans. And in short, the bulk of ford's line up is just too expensive for the current market conditions (As an example the bronco raptor is USD 90,035 A very special car, but few people are spending that kind of money at the moment. Bronco raptor would be ~NZD 180,000 if they brought it to NZ). And so USA ford dealers are flooded with expensive vehicles they can't sell in current market conditions.

Perhaps fords biggest success at the moment in the USA is the Maverick. A fairly unique offering in the market place (unibody ute on a car based platform, a size down from the ranger). It's the cheapest car in fords linuep and the cheapest hybrid in the USA, and new and novel enough it is still special.

Scott3

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#3309310 15-Nov-2024 10:56

wellygary:

Scott3:

I'm more concerned about the wider implications of the volitivity sales to brands willingness to bring EV's in volume to the NZ market. It is a fair assumption that ford NZ is going to be extremely gunshy about placing big EV orders, given this experience of having to drop their pants on pricing...

Yeah, Although while NZ is at the really pointy end of EV sales shrinkage, its not solely down to the change in policy here.

In Au,overall sales are down 25% Y/Y

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/11/battery-powered-electric-vehicle-sales-plunge-by-25-as-australian-drivers-choose-hybrid-models

Mach-E sales in OZ are crawling too,

"Mustang Mach-E has sold just 544 units in all of 2024 according to VFACTS September figures."
https://techau.com.au/dealers-slashing-thousands-off-fords-mustang-mach-e-prices/

in NZ the number in YTD sales in September were 213, That's in a country 1/5 the size with GDP/head 33% lower,

https://www.mia.org.nz/DesktopModules/EasyDNNNews/DocumentDownload.ashx?portalid=0&moduleid=845&articleid=1412&documentid=2759

Yes, a lot of global factors are at play the auto industry in a whole is in a overshoot situation at the moment.

They pre-emptively dropped production at the start to the pandemic (which was worse by the microchip shortage), before ending up severally understocked (partially on more expensive models, like EV's, & Low range 4x4's) as it turned out the combination of low interest rates, Loose fiscal policy, and travel restrictions / pandemic stuff dropping travel & hospo spending to the floor, meaning that many cashed up people had money to burn on a new flash car...

So they cranked production (focusing on flash expensive stuff), and the return of travel + high interest rates & living costs, mean buyers willingness to spend has dropped to the floor.

EV's are partially impacted as many brands were expecting 30%+ growth (off the back of the Ukraine invasion surge in EV demand), but now fuel is cheap and people are cash strapped.

Still I think you would struggle to find a market worse than NZ for EV sales decline.

Oct 2023: 2585
Oct 2024: 648

That's a 75% decline. (yes, the pre rebate ending surge of registrations did boost the 2023 number).

wellygary

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#3309317 15-Nov-2024 11:18

Scott3:

But now the coil has flipped, Money is tight (especially for those shopping with a $/month finance budget), used cars have dropped in value to the point that many in the USA are underwater (car worth less than loan value) on their car loans.

And in short, the bulk of ford's line up is just too expensive for the current market conditions (As an example the bronco raptor is USD 90,035 A very special car, but few people are spending that kind of money at the moment. Bronco raptor would be ~NZD 180,000 if they brought it to NZ). And so USA ford dealers are flooded with expensive vehicles they can't sell in current market conditions.

But its not just Ford, and TBH its a more function of Interest rates that car price s( although that will impact)
,80% of new cars/light trucks in the US go off the lot via a car loan or lease,

Car loan rates in the US doubled between 2021 and 2023, (3.8% to over 7.6%) - This would have really bought the market to its knees, recent rate cuts will be helping thou

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#3309447 15-Nov-2024 19:14

Scott3:

EV's are partially impacted as many brands were expecting 30%+ growth (off the back of the Ukraine invasion surge in EV demand), but now fuel is cheap and people are cash strapped.

Or … EV’s only have a limited appeal at present and those who want one have already purchased.

I suspect sales will remain relatively subdued until the next EV breakthrough hits, eg. Longer range battery tech, quantum shift in charging times.

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#3309453 15-Nov-2024 19:49

dafman:

I suspect sales will remain relatively subdued until the next EV breakthrough hits, eg. Longer range battery tech, quantum shift in charging times.

Not really sure what such a breakthrough would be. You can already drive an EV from the top to the bottom of the country in roughly the same time as an ICE, unless you like peeing in a bottle.

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#3309490 15-Nov-2024 21:22

I'd suggest people have a watch of the latest Harry's Garage video, although the subject matter was performance cars, a lot of parallels can be drawn with EV's, and the whole car market in general.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs0-G2vIWiU

Depreciation is playing a big part, as the EV are, generally speaking, still the flagship's of a lot of lineups.

Although, in the video\film, he's speaking of the EU market, where the latest EU regs are having the biggest impact, that cost of the tech that is being mandated will be being passed across the whole global fleet, therefore driving prices up.

His comments around cybersecurity, cars, and the latest tech is not something that i'd guess the average buyer would even think about.

As he closes with, there will always be people buying\wanting the bleeding\cutting edge of new cars\tech, they'll take the big hit, and it might be good for everyone else ?

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#3309491 15-Nov-2024 21:39

SaltyNZ:

dafman:

I suspect sales will remain relatively subdued until the next EV breakthrough hits, eg. Longer range battery tech, quantum shift in charging times.

Not really sure what such a breakthrough would be. You can already drive an EV from the top to the bottom of the country in roughly the same time as an ICE, unless you like peeing in a bottle.

Probably cost parity, like digital cameras vs film cameras c.2005.

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