VW - busted!

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#1398521 2-Oct-2015 10:26

joker97: NA petrol V8 ftw!

If only they tested my Audi for emissions.
2 3" straight pipes off the turbos straight to the atmosphere!
Not a single cat or muffler.
Runs a very fuel rich map for all the horse powers!!

When your on the track it shoots flames and black smoke (Unburnt fuel)

New Zealand is too cold if you ask me. Doing my part to help.

Technofreak

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#1398535 2-Oct-2015 10:42

joker97:
Question is which ones have cheating software vs ones that just have real world problems. Eg claimed fuel consumption vs real world, battery life of your Mobile phone laptop etc

Did you read the article?

The results show the Volvo S60, Renault's Espace Energy, the Jeep Renegade and Nissan-made X-Trail all exceeded legal European limits for nitrogen oxide (NOx) by more than 10 times.

It really doesn't matter how they did it, cheating software or not, it appears they all somehow showed they met the standard when in fact they didn't.

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Fred99

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#1398564 2-Oct-2015 11:01

TimA:
joker97: NA petrol V8 ftw!

If only they tested my Audi for emissions.
2 3" straight pipes off the turbos straight to the atmosphere!
Not a single cat or muffler.
Runs a very fuel rich map for all the horse powers!!

When your on the track it shoots flames and black smoke (Unburnt fuel)

New Zealand is too cold if you ask me. Doing my part to help.

The rich mixture probably means low NOx, and the black smoke might not be as bad as invisible nano-particulates formed in (lean) stratified petrol injection engines.
Anyway, the issues with NOx is mainly a "local" pollution issue, rather than "greenhouse gas" etc.
The lies about fuel economy (hence CO2) are a related but separate issue with testing.

Anyway, you don't have to look much further than F1 to see what's probably going to happen eventually with all motorsport.

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#1398575 2-Oct-2015 11:14

Technofreak:
joker97:
Question is which ones have cheating software vs ones that just have real world problems. Eg claimed fuel consumption vs real world, battery life of your Mobile phone laptop etc

Did you read the article?

The results show the Volvo S60, Renault's Espace Energy, the Jeep Renegade and Nissan-made X-Trail all exceeded legal European limits for nitrogen oxide (NOx) by more than 10 times.

It really doesn't matter how they did it, cheating software or not, it appears they all somehow showed they met the standard when in fact they didn't.

The article didn't say whether they cheated or not. So what if it was passed despite 100x off of they didn't cheat?

Technofreak

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#1398632 2-Oct-2015 11:48

joker97:
Technofreak:
joker97:
Question is which ones have cheating software vs ones that just have real world problems. Eg claimed fuel consumption vs real world, battery life of your Mobile phone laptop etc

Did you read the article?

The results show the Volvo S60, Renault's Espace Energy, the Jeep Renegade and Nissan-made X-Trail all exceeded legal European limits for nitrogen oxide (NOx) by more than 10 times.

It really doesn't matter how they did it, cheating software or not, it appears they all somehow showed they met the standard when in fact they didn't.

The article didn't say whether they cheated or not. So what if it was passed despite 100x off of they didn't cheat?

My point was that to have apparently met the standard when independent testing showed they didn't says to me they cheated somehow with or without software. So whats is the difference?

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

Fred99

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#1398655 2-Oct-2015 12:18

Technofreak:
joker97:
Technofreak:
joker97:
Question is which ones have cheating software vs ones that just have real world problems. Eg claimed fuel consumption vs real world, battery life of your Mobile phone laptop etc

Did you read the article?

The results show the Volvo S60, Renault's Espace Energy, the Jeep Renegade and Nissan-made X-Trail all exceeded legal European limits for nitrogen oxide (NOx) by more than 10 times.

It really doesn't matter how they did it, cheating software or not, it appears they all somehow showed they met the standard when in fact they didn't.

The article didn't say whether they cheated or not. So what if it was passed despite 100x off of they didn't cheat?

My point was that to have apparently met the standard when independent testing showed they didn't says to me they cheated somehow with or without software. So whats is the difference?

One is "cycle beating", the other is plain cheating and a damned sight easier to prove in the case of VW - they got cornered and had to admit it

Cycle-beating isn't going to be simple to "fix". Examples might be as simple as making sure the battery is 100% fully charged before a (dyno) test, or with "adapative" transmission (car adjusts shift load/rpm automatically through "learning" driver behaviour) so tune the ECU/TCU so it performs well on a standard dyno test even if they know that it won't be replicated in real life by most drivers). Or even cars with switchable "eco" or "sport" or "comfort" modes - then how do you test it (which mode)?
It's a great big can of worms.

If they're going to come up with something useful for real emissions testing, perhaps they should get the auto-makers to nominate the targets, then store "real life" data in the ECU, download that at a later date, then reward or penalise the makers for meeting their own emissions and economy targets. Fuel economy (hence also CO2) and NOx data could probably be obtained from existing sensors.

Coil

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#1398676 2-Oct-2015 12:38

Fred99:
TimA:
joker97: NA petrol V8 ftw!

If only they tested my Audi for emissions.
2 3" straight pipes off the turbos straight to the atmosphere!
Not a single cat or muffler.
Runs a very fuel rich map for all the horse powers!!

When your on the track it shoots flames and black smoke (Unburnt fuel)

New Zealand is too cold if you ask me. Doing my part to help.

The rich mixture probably means low NOx, and the black smoke might not be as bad as invisible nano-particulates formed in (lean) stratified petrol injection engines.
Anyway, the issues with NOx is mainly a "local" pollution issue, rather than "greenhouse gas" etc.
The lies about fuel economy (hence CO2) are a related but separate issue with testing.

Anyway, you don't have to look much further than F1 to see what's probably going to happen eventually with all motorsport.

Yeah, F1 is cool and all but its all going to go hybrid blah blah.
Still. Cant beat Targa..

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Technofreak

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#1398679 2-Oct-2015 12:41

Fred99:One is "cycle beating", the other is plain cheating

So "Cycle Beating" isn't cheating?

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

Sideface

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#1398689 2-Oct-2015 12:54

The VW prototype diesel airliner

Sideface

Fred99

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#1398693 2-Oct-2015 13:02

TimA:
Fred99:
TimA:
joker97: NA petrol V8 ftw!

If only they tested my Audi for emissions.
2 3" straight pipes off the turbos straight to the atmosphere!
Not a single cat or muffler.
Runs a very fuel rich map for all the horse powers!!

When your on the track it shoots flames and black smoke (Unburnt fuel)

New Zealand is too cold if you ask me. Doing my part to help.

The rich mixture probably means low NOx, and the black smoke might not be as bad as invisible nano-particulates formed in (lean) stratified petrol injection engines.
Anyway, the issues with NOx is mainly a "local" pollution issue, rather than "greenhouse gas" etc.
The lies about fuel economy (hence CO2) are a related but separate issue with testing.

Anyway, you don't have to look much further than F1 to see what's probably going to happen eventually with all motorsport.

Yeah, F1 is cool and all but its all going to go hybrid blah blah.
Still. Cant beat Targa..

The F1 eco-hybrid cars and spares probably get delivered to the tracks in old 747 freighters, the drivers probably arrive in private jets. It's all a bit barmy.

Fred99

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#1398698 2-Oct-2015 13:09

Technofreak:
Fred99:One is "cycle beating", the other is plain cheating

So "Cycle Beating" isn't cheating?

If that's what it does when tested to the standards - without using a "device" to turn emissions control on for testing purposes - which is illegal under the rules, then it's just working within the rules.
A bit like tax minimisation vs tax evasion perhaps.

Batman

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#1400618 5-Oct-2015 23:20

from here

MikeB4

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#1400646 6-Oct-2015 07:48

The only "dirty" diesels I seem to encounter are Nissan, Isuzu, Mitsubishi and the entire Wellington region diesel bus stock.

MikeB4

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#1400672 6-Oct-2015 08:26

My wife two weeks ago purchased a Skoda, an awesome car, so much kit for the price and great performance. It is a petrol so it's expected from a euro car.

shk292

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#1400701 6-Oct-2015 08:51

Interesting question - it you're an affected VW owner and your dealer offers you the "fix" to this problem, that fixes NOx emissions possibly at the expense of economy and/or performance, do you take it?

Purely hypothetical because I don't own a VW (last one I owned was a '79 Scirocco) and I have no idea what the fix will entail

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