Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek


#180723 19-Sep-2015 12:22
Send private message

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/business/volkswagen-is-ordered-to-recall-nearly-500000-vehicles-over-emissions-software.html


The Environmental Protection Agency accused the German automaker of using software to detect when the car is undergoing its periodic state emissions testing. Only during such tests are the cars’ full emissions control systems turned on. During normal driving situations, the controls are turned off, allowing the cars to spew as much as 40 times as much pollution as allowed under the Clean Air Act, the E.P.A. said.


This will be interesting.
It's one thing to use cycle-beating to exaggerate real-world performance, but this time it looks like VW have been pinged for doing something far more sneaky and deliberate.  
The cynic in me may lead me to conclude that EU authorities may have been prepared to turn a bit of a blind eye because of the economic importance of the car industry.  Uncle Sam might not be so forgiving when AFAIK, VAG don't have production in the US (though VW are Borg Warner's largest customer for DSG dual-clutch auto transmissions, I believe most of that DSG production is outside the US).

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | ... | 13

gzt

gzt
17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1390194 19-Sep-2015 13:06
Send private message

Deliberately fooling government emission standards testing is very serious.

Fuel consumption figures? That one needs a look as well.



mdooher
Hmm, what to write...
1424 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1390272 19-Sep-2015 15:13
Send private message

If true that's bloody clever.




Matthew


gzt

gzt
17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1390276 19-Sep-2015 15:19
Send private message

At the end of the day no cleverer than a fridge manufacturer.



ilovemusic
1439 posts

Uber Geek


  #1390293 19-Sep-2015 15:38
Send private message

   Uncle Sam might not be so forgiving when AFAIK, VAG don't have production in the US ...


vw have had a plant operating in chattanooga, tennessee since 2011 where they build us market passats.

pdath
252 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1390298 19-Sep-2015 15:49
Send private message

I think it is a pretty common practice for the ECU to retard the vehicles performance at the RPM test points. Some vehicles also change the exhaust systems as well.




Try my latest project, a Cisco type 5 enable secret password cracker written in javascript!

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek


  #1390305 19-Sep-2015 16:01
Send private message

ilovemusic:
   Uncle Sam might not be so forgiving when AFAIK, VAG don't have production in the US ...


vw have had a plant operating in chattanooga, tennessee since 2011 where they build us market passats.


Indeed - I missed that.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek


  #1390313 19-Sep-2015 16:21
Send private message

pdath: I think it is a pretty common practice for the ECU to retard the vehicles performance at the RPM test points. Some vehicles also change the exhaust systems as well.


Smarter than that from the look of it.  It reads as if they set up the ECU to detect when an actual EPA test cycle was being run, then the ECU turns all minimum emissions settings "on" regardless of input settings (ie how hard a driver may be pushing it, whether they'd switched drive mode from "eco" to "sport" etc.) for the duration of the test.

For several reasons, having all the emissions control "on" would not be the way most people would choose to drive the vehicles, and would come at some economy and performance hit.  The appeal of these cars is that they perform extremely well and are very economical - and "green" of course.  Looks like it was too good to be true.

Not sure what went on here.  Sounds like California (CARB) specific testing may have been showing huge anomalies - possibly on out of state re-registrations, where mandatory "smog testing" of individual cars brought in to California would include NOx, and they'd do the NOx test using their own test which would be different from an EPA test cycle and probably a bit more random in terms of how it was carried out at a local testing station.

 
 
 

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.
mdooher
Hmm, what to write...
1424 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1390360 19-Sep-2015 17:35
Send private message

I have no actual knowledge of the subject but I can imagine the US laws were written along the lines of "car must pass the following test..." rather than "car must preform like this and we will test it using various methods"

So quite possibly VW have done nothing wrong, just taken advantage of a stupidly written law.




Matthew


Behodar
10501 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1390401 19-Sep-2015 19:05
Send private message

Reminds me of PC hardware manufacturers cheating at WHQL driver certification!

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek


  #1390404 19-Sep-2015 19:08
Send private message

mdooher: I have no actual knowledge of the subject but I can imagine the US laws were written along the lines of "car must pass the following test..." rather than "car must preform like this and we will test it using various methods"

So quite possibly VW have done nothing wrong, just taken advantage of a stupidly written law.


Stupidly written law or not, they've shown utter contempt for that law.


pdath
252 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1390420 19-Sep-2015 20:12
Send private message

VW are definitely in the gun. To get the certificate before being allowed to sell a vehicle they have to have the EPA test done and declare any aspect of the vehicle which could affect the test results. They also have to make a declaration that the vehicle contains no systems that will try and alter the results.

They are completely screwed. Maximum fine is 18 billion. They are also not allowed to sell any new model diesels until the issue is resolved. They are also required to make every existing vehicle sold compliant. To make them compliant they will have to rob the vehicles of their preformance.

Would you want to take your vehicle on knowing it will come out performing worse?




Try my latest project, a Cisco type 5 enable secret password cracker written in javascript!

gzt

gzt
17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1390430 19-Sep-2015 20:23
Send private message

Behodar: Reminds me of PC hardware manufacturers cheating at WHQL driver certification!

Classic.

jarledb
Webhead
3253 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
ID Verified
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1390447 19-Sep-2015 21:16
Send private message

pdath: 
Would you want to take your vehicle on knowing it will come out performing worse?


I think there is a fair good chance that VW can look forward to a class action suit from their customers following the callback and reduced performance of the cars... 




Jarle Dahl Bergersen | Referral Links: Want $50 off when you join Octopus Energy? Use this referral code
Are you happy with what you get from Geekzone? Please consider supporting us by making a donation or subscribing.


mattwnz
20141 posts

Uber Geek


  #1390484 19-Sep-2015 22:34
Send private message

Fred99: 

Stupidly written law or not, they've shown utter contempt for that law.



I wonder how many other companies do this sort of thing, and haven't been caught out. The thing about laws, is that they can be very badly written and full of hole, and lawyers can interprete  them differently. NZ is no different, so of our district plans for example are full of holes.

gzt

gzt
17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1390502 20-Sep-2015 02:35
Send private message

jarledb:
pdath: 
Would you want to take your vehicle on knowing it will come out performing worse?


I think there is a fair good chance that VW can look forward to a class action suit from their customers following the callback and reduced performance of the cars... 

They might be offered the best trade in deal ever during this recall. Expensive, but it will make sense in so many ways.

 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | ... | 13
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News and reviews »

Air New Zealand Starts AI adoption with OpenAI
Posted 24-Jul-2025 16:00


eero Pro 7 Review
Posted 23-Jul-2025 12:07


BeeStation Plus Review
Posted 21-Jul-2025 14:21


eero Unveils New Wi-Fi 7 Products in New Zealand
Posted 21-Jul-2025 00:01


WiZ Introduces HDMI Sync Box and other Light Devices
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:32


RedShield Enhances DDoS and Bot Attack Protection
Posted 20-Jul-2025 17:26


Seagate Ships 30TB Drives
Posted 17-Jul-2025 11:24


Oclean AirPump A10 Water Flosser Review
Posted 13-Jul-2025 11:05


Samsung Galaxy Z Fold7: Raising the Bar for Smartphones
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Samsung Galaxy Z Flip7 Brings New Edge-To-Edge FlexWindow
Posted 10-Jul-2025 02:01


Epson Launches New AM-C550Z WorkForce Enterprise printer
Posted 9-Jul-2025 18:22


Samsung Releases Smart Monitor M9
Posted 9-Jul-2025 17:46


Nearly Half of Older Kiwis Still Write their Passwords on Paper
Posted 9-Jul-2025 08:42


D-Link 4G+ Cat6 Wi-Fi 6 DWR-933M Mobile Hotspot Review
Posted 1-Jul-2025 11:34


Oppo A5 Series Launches With New Levels of Durability
Posted 30-Jun-2025 10:15









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.