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34 posts

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# 175144 19-Jun-2015 00:50
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Hi folks, let's me go straight to my concern here.

I'm going to buy a new car. The problem is that there is security interest on it (from 2013, expires in 2018, checked on both carjam and ppsr site). The current owner told me that according to the previous owner, the debt has been pay off. But the security interest still appears on these 2 sites so I'm quite confusing now. 

I've sent email to the secured company about that but I don't think I'll get the answer for it so I think I can ask you guys then.

I did research about this case and this is the closest I can found:

"If you bought your vehicle from a business that was a registered motor vehicle trader and the “security interest” field on the Consumer Information Notice wasn’t ticked, then you received no warning of the security interest. This means the finance company can’t repossess the vehicle from you. You must tell the finance company to contact the business for their money."

 

"If you bought a vehicle privately or at a car market or fair, special rules apply.

 

If a finance company had a registered security interest in the vehicle at the time you bought the vehicle, then they can repossess the vehicle from you. But, there are three exceptions to this rule:

 

If at any time between when the security interest was created and when you bought the vehicle, the vehicle passed through a registered motor vehicle trader.

 

The finance company can’t repossess the vehicle from you because it was sold through a registered motor vehicle trader after it became subject to the security interest.

 

  • Example: Ellie buys a car for cash from Easy Cars Ltd, a registered motor vehicle trader. She sells it a few months later to her friend Henrietta.

     

    Henrietta gets a call from a finance company to say that the car is still on a credit contract to a past owner. Henrietta finds out that the person who sold the car to Easy Cars Ltd used the car as security on a cash loan. Henrietta tells the finance company to get their money from Easy Cars Ltd. The finance company can’t take Henrietta’s car because it was sold through a registered motor vehicle trader after it became subject to the security interest"

     

(Source: http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/motor-vehicles/got-a-problem/money-owing-by-a-previous-owner)

So in this case, since the beginning of the security interest, the car has changed ownership 4 times.

1st owner after security interest is the dealer (A), they sold the car to private owner (B).

B sold the car to another dealer (C)

Dealer C sold the car to private owner (D)

D sold the car to private owner (E)

E is the current owner now. From information he got from owner D, the debt has been pay off. I only got the tax invoice for the transaction between C and D, there is only basic information about the car (colour, make, model, km's, etc), there is no information about the money owning on the car. I can't get the CIN for that.

So my question are:

If the current owner E told me that there is security interest on it, the finance company can come and take the car, I'm understand this. But if the current owner E don't know or unsure about the security interest on the vehicle, can the finance company take the car from me after I bought it? It's similar to the case from the consumer affair website but they didn't mention that whether Ellie knew about the security interest or not.

The car has been Re-Registered and selling cheaper than similar cars so I think it must be something wrong with it but after clearly about the money owning, I can bring it to do pre-purchase inspection but it is another story.

Any help would be appreciate. Cheers :)

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  # 1327582 19-Jun-2015 05:32
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It doesn't matter whether if you know or not. If there is money owe they will/can take it. The money is secured against the car. It is your responsibility to check.

I have a friend who didn't check as he believed the seller. He was at work and got a phone call that they're towing his car from the flatmate. He wasted his money.





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  # 1327588 19-Jun-2015 07:17
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Don't touch it.

It's really not worth it.  If they come to take the car etc do you really have the money to be without a car for however long it takes to sort out (endless phone calls, going to meetings, emails etc).
It must  be priced really well for you even to be thinking about doing this.  If the price is low it would also ring alarm bells.

Out of interests, has the number plate been changed during the last few ownerships?
It kind of sounds like people are flicking it when they are being contacted by the company that has security on it.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1327589 19-Jun-2015 07:32
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So my question are:

If the current owner E told me that there is security interest on it, the finance company can come and take the car, I'm understand this. But if the current owner E don't know or unsure about the security interest on the vehicle, can the finance company take the car from me after I bought it? It's similar to the case from the consumer affair website but they didn't mention that whether Ellie knew about the security interest or not.

The car has been Re-Registered and selling cheaper than similar cars so I think it must be something wrong with it but after clearly about the money owning, I can bring it to do pre-purchase inspection but it is another story.

Any help would be appreciate. Cheers :)


Dont waste your time or money on this. 

If a finance company has a security interest on it they can seize it no matter who is the current owner. 






 

 

 

 

 


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  # 1327593 19-Jun-2015 07:47
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Sometimes the finance company forgets to remove the security interest. Check with them. If there is money owing and you buy it ... You pay




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1327594 19-Jun-2015 07:50
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If you want legal advice talk to your lawyer or see your local community law office. Asking for legal advice on  tech site is like asking for medical advice at your corner dairy.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




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  # 1327598 19-Jun-2015 08:02
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mrtoken: Don't touch it.

It's really not worth it.  If they come to take the car etc do you really have the money to be without a car for however long it takes to sort out (endless phone calls, going to meetings, emails etc).
It must  be priced really well for you even to be thinking about doing this.  If the price is low it would also ring alarm bells.

Out of interests, has the number plate been changed during the last few ownerships?
It kind of sounds like people are flicking it when they are being contacted by the company that has security on it.



No, the number plate has been changed several times before the security interest but there is no change after they put security on it.

MikeB4: If you want legal advice talk to your lawyer or see your local community law office. Asking for legal advice on  tech site is like asking for medical advice at your corner dairy.


I just want to ask if you guys here has some experience with it, if I only hear about bad experience so I will spend my time for another car then :)

Thanks for your responses guys, I think I tried to convince myself to buy it as it seemed to be a good bargain when I see the price, damn me. Gonna wait for the reply from finance company and see it hasn't pay off so I'll give up then

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  # 1327604 19-Jun-2015 08:26
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I purchased a car with security owing when I was young and silly. I contacted the finance company the security was against and they released it. Obviously this may not always be the case. 

 
 
 
 


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  # 1327613 19-Jun-2015 08:39
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Ring the finance company. We were looking at a replacement vehicle that was too cheap to be true, but I suspect that was because the carjam report stated there was money owing on it. After emailing them and with no reply after a week I called up the finance company and spoke to a girl who said it was all paid off and would remove the note on their system. The next day I checked carjam again and there was no longer any money owed so I bought the car. 

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  # 1327636 19-Jun-2015 08:58
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You never know from a computer generate system report. Only the finance company knows for sure.




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1327651 19-Jun-2015 09:28
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You need to contact the company who holds the security. Never take the previous owners word for it. If the company who hold the security agree to release the security, go for it (assuming everything else like mechanical condition, not stolen etc checks out lol). If not, stay away.

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  # 1327726 19-Jun-2015 10:57
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pmkhoi: ....if the current owner E don't know or unsure about the security interest on the vehicle, can the finance company take the car from me after I bought it? It's similar to the case from the consumer affair website but they didn't mention that whether Ellie knew about the security interest or not.

This is S58 of the Personal Property Securities Act 1999.

If the dealer didn't disclose the security interest then E got ownership of the car free of the security interest, and the dealer is liable if the finance company chooses to go after them. But that doesn't seem to remove the security interest for subsequent private sales. I am guessing the finance company could then choose to go after either the dealer or the car, and the car is probably easier.

But that's different to what the Consumer Affairs website says, and IANAL!





McLean


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  # 1327754 19-Jun-2015 11:27
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mclean:
pmkhoi: ....if the current owner E don't know or unsure about the security interest on the vehicle, can the finance company take the car from me after I bought it? It's similar to the case from the consumer affair website but they didn't mention that whether Ellie knew about the security interest or not.

This is S58 of the Personal Property Securities Act 1999.

If the dealer didn't disclose the security interest then E got ownership of the car free of the security interest, and the dealer is liable if the finance company chooses to go after them. But that doesn't seem to remove the security interest for subsequent private sales. I am guessing the finance company could then choose to go after either the dealer or the car, and the car is probably easier.

But that's different to what the Consumer Affairs website says, and IANAL!



Once the security interest is gone, it can't attach again once you sell it.

In OP's situation, where was the security interest created? 

The registered trader exceptions in the PPSA would protect D from any security interest on the car when they bought it from the registered trader (C) if C did not disclose it. The security interest could not then reattach later.

If D bought it on finance from the dealer, then the exception doesn't apply because E isn't a registered trader.

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  # 1327760 19-Jun-2015 11:35
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If the finance company wont respond send in this form.

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/pdf-library/Complain-to-company-form.pdf







Obsequious hypocrite

gzt

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  # 1327842 19-Jun-2015 13:16
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Email is a bad way to expect a response.



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  # 1328147 20-Jun-2015 00:23
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Thanks guys, I'm quite surprise to see many replies after one day. I think the only choice for me now is calling the finance company on Monday (they haven't reply my email) and only go for it if the debt has been put off.

Just one more question. As I said, the car has been re-registered. As the carjam report said there was no record about written-off:

Reported Stolen? No.
Water/Fire Damage: No records
Statutory Write-off: No records

I'm gonna have a pre-purchase inspection after get confirmation from finance insurance but curious about the re-registered in this car as I found it quite interesting here.

First of all, the car in stock condition/no aftermarket parts or modified on it now so I suppose that there were only few or no modify in the past. Here is what happened during the re-registration:

Oct 2010, the car passed WOF
Jan 2011, one guy bought the car
May 2011, the car put through re-registration process and WOF (Pre-registration Check in odometer section). There was NO changing ownership or plates during this time.
Oct 2011, the car passed WOF (?). Why the WOF only last for 5 months?
Dec 2011, the car sold to dealer. Registration plate has been changed. (Security interest applied on it, lol)
May 2012, the car passed WOF

I did some research about the re-registration, so 2 common reason for it are: damaged/written off or the license expired for 1 year. So in this case, the license can't be expired for 1 year (based on the WOF Oct 2010 - May 2011, the car can get WOF without license). I'm not sure about the written off, suppose that the carjam info about the written-off is wrong but it still keep the plates. Like when the car has been written off, insurance company will give you money or new car, the car will go to scrap yard or put on auction, the plates should be taken off and the ownership should be changed during this time. But in this case, nothing happened? Any theory or explain guys?

Sorry if I'm too dumb or missing something in this case.

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