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#2509553 22-Jun-2020 11:15

tdgeek:

RTS is the big name player, gets awards and so on, but in a real game what does he do? He gets the ball early in the tackle count, does a few fancy steps and gets caught.

Well hes debateably the best Full BACK in the game. The idea of a FB traditionally could be a likened to a Goalie in Football. Except hes constantly moving. He is imo by far the best visionary on defense in the NRL. He is so often there on the spot when nobody else is within 10 metres, he has a feel for what the dynamic players in the opposition (6, 7, 9, offensive 1) are going to do. As you say he also eats up a lot more metres than any other player in the game per year.

I do agree though, he should most definitely be utilised in set plays, ie players in motion 6 passes to centre, defense is drifting, centre feigns to pass to winger but passes to RTS at speed on the reverse angle, with his footwork, would smoke almost any player. The modern FB has been used offensively in recent years but many have been shizer defenders and certainly dont put in the yards RTS does. Which along with Ken and Fus you would think would make the forwards job easy..... (this is another issue)

The problem is, we havnt since Johnson got axed, had a dynamic offensive player, we are desperately missing one. CHT is shaping up as a great 7, more a traditional 7 but with a fantastic kick and pass and a handy step, but really we need somebody at 6 of high Calibre, if Hayze Perham is not it, Kodi certainly isnt (If Wayne Bennett saw him as a utility bench player on $250k and the next coach didnt want him at all, I trust them).

But regardless we definitely need RTS injected into the line, which means either as an overlap, backing up broken field via the hooker (which is why we need to replace pedastrian wade egan always engaging the markers), or trying to put him through a hole via reverse angle. I trust CHT will be able to do this more often next year, I also hope if the CEO is soon to be axed Shaun Johnson is re hired in a failing Morris Sharkies, or Hayze lives up to all the belief players like SJ and RTS have in him. The 9 is an obvious problem. We played four hookers in a game last year and none of them are good. Luckily we have released a few. We need someone like Lawton given the position permanently or we poach somebody like Brandon Smith (who is still waiting for Cam Smith to retire).

Fix the 6, 9 and put more dynamic forwards like Tohu in the team and the Warriors are a top 4 team with the right coach, just like the should have been in 2018, which was dissapointing regardless of making the 8, they totally played the last half of the year below their capability.

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#2509620 22-Jun-2020 11:41

Handle9: He works hard and has great personal values but he couldn't develop or attract talent. His Warriors and Parramatta sides showed that pretty clearly.

A coach who can develop players skill levels

Spot on. However there arent many good coaches that can do this. Keep in mind the players should be 95% capable by the of U20. Wayne Bennett would be the best known for being an individual inspiration and a coach who will take time aside for key individuals like the halves or FB to show them what is not working and help them get it right. But he couldnt help Kodi and if he benched him then I feel fair to say Kodi is not able to improve by his age, which is not good enough for any 1st grade team, no matter how brilliant he can be individually at rep level, 24 rounds of NRL shows up who is really fair dinkum and who isnt.

To be fair though just for a second on SK first, the team he was being hired to coach was single handedly ruined by boy George. I have no hesitation in thinking he knew his time was up so he threw SK under first to save himself as long as possible. Had SK still had Johnson and a top shelf hooker like Luke last year and this year, I have no doubt we would be in the top 4 with SK.

Knowing SK is a process coach and does the basics really well, dismantling what was a top 4 spine then hiring players no other team wants is just madness. So I do blame the CEO and management in general for their part in destroying what was a great team (and is easily capable of being one again with a few changes). But I do think we need a more trustworthy CEO, one who has negotiation skills, doesnt shove your most important offensive player out into the market where he is quickly snapped up for the money you said to test the market with, he uses F..K Bombs when speaking in public interviews and public facing team announcements, he just reminds me of "Better call Saul" type character (or lack there of). I have no doubt Robinson and Autex will axe him.

RE The players following SK etc, there is a department in the NRL that jumps on Agents for instigating such behaviour, so that wont be happening.

Essentially SK just isnt the right coach for the current 30 man squad, he did the hard yards, MUCH improving the teams discipline and completion rate along with periods of steely defense (then they would let the flood gates open once they couldnt penetrate themselves).

So if anything Peyton may actually be a good man for the job even post this year. He was the winning coach of the U20 for the Tigers, he was in the Coaching team for the Cowboys Premiership and Im hoping whatever he does he has learnt to not let NZ players become sloppy and lets SKs attention to detail and high standards in the basics not slip (ie not go backward to the old warriors), but also initiate more offensive strategy, throw some liberty to the key offensive players to come up with plays they like and the liberty to execute them when the play is on. This is the hard part though, knowing when and when not to. Ie Wade Egan trying to niggle with the markers is a habit and he doesnt know when its a good ploy and a bad one, so now its just a habit which I doubt even WB could coach out of him (aside from being slow as well).

Wakrak:

I always think back to 2002 and the flair we had. Just a one off? how do we build consistency? Nevermind the one off, we want to be consistency

You assemble a team of 7-8/10 players with a few 9/10 players like the Warriors 2018 (Peta and Kata Id have more in the 6/10 rating). You get a coach who can all 3 major components of the game as a team (discipline, defense, offense), who also can work with players of lesser quality to improve their game one on one. SK did some great things for the club culture, namely discipline. But what I feel he lacked was definitely being an individuals coach and possibly he choked the offense out of the team in favour of discipline. Aside from the positions Ive mentioned, the Warriors are easily capable of being that team you want. Remember round 1 last year? 40-6 vs Doggies. All of a sudden people thought this guy Keighran was the next Magic Shaun Johnson, slam the brakes on, no he simply had the best game of his life amongst a team playing offensively very well. That team is still there, CHT will be 7 next year and I believe on his performances thus far will be one of NZs best 7s ever, if Kodi doesnt deliver the rest of this year, Hayze Perham will get a crack at 6 and if he lives up to SJs and RTS thoughts he is the next hot thing. Put Lawton at 9 full time, if his shoulders hold up, he is one of the most intense players in the squad and will gain 10m at worst and at best be creating havoc with open field play via fast wrestle to clear the ball ie 3.1s and Lawton being a back by origin being very quick out of dummy half putting defense under consistent pressure. Involve RTS as has been said more often. Its all there, ready and waiting.

My only sinking feeling is the fact Nathan Brown was supposed added help, so after 3 visits since that announcement in the off season, SK has been axed and CEO boy George has publicly been using Nathans name a lot, just falling short of saying he is SKs replacement. If that happens, backward we go.

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#2509687 22-Jun-2020 12:47

Handle9:

(by a long way) were Cleary and Anderson. They were both young coaches but had come through a development process and had success. In the case of Cleary he also understood the challenge in NZ having played for the club

Cleary is also a very calm demure but not too calm like SK. Anderson direct opposite, he was more of a motivational SHOUTER. Also Anderson was one of very few coaches with no actual playing experience.

I thought when Cleary got knifed at Penrith after giving up a Warriors team consistently making the 8 and a GF in his final, we had a chanced to get not only him back but possibly Nathan along with him. Both having spent a lot of time in NZ have a token Kiwi card for extra value. If we ever get a shot at Cleary again I think we should be taking it (outside having a top 4 team/coach). To think I thought after Johnsons first year we were in for an epic ride, then they hired Elliot then his 2ic Cappy, OMFG. Watson was lucky that Auckland especially has a lot of very faithful fans. Any other team would not get consistently the numbers they do.

Despite this sucking for SK, Im sort of glad we at least now have owners commited to making decisions, it can only spell good things for the future. They said from the outright they are performance based and any under performing people inc players and coaches will get axed. I just know George wont be able to talk his way out of us not performing by end of year, by that I mean making the 8, because as unfair as that sounds it is no less fair than what has occured with SK.

SK is probably worth more money now than had he have been axed at the end of the year I think with so much soladarity from fans, ex players, media and sports personalities all coming out to support him and calling out Warriors management (George essentially) for what looked like a dog act (what he and the entire team are going through just to provide us a team to support in the NRL this year)

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#2510787 23-Jun-2020 18:30

Lol. It's all Georges fault - except that it pretty clearly wasn't his decision.

tdgeek

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#2517631 5-Jul-2020 17:52

Good win last night. Absent were the two best players, RTS and Nikorima. TAB had Broncos strong favourites (thanks TAB for the money to me). It was like a wooden spoon contest, Broncos lost last 5, Warriors are well, Warriors. They were unlucky as Broncos got lucky, but after being down 0-10, Maumalo was magic. Green was great. I felt that last week was the down in the dumps drumming but this week they get back to it. With RTS back, and Nikorima probably back, and some belief, I expect better from now on

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#2517635 5-Jul-2020 18:15

tdgeek:

Good win last night. Absent were the two best players, RTS and Nikorima. TAB had Broncos strong favourites (thanks TAB for the money to me). It was like a wooden spoon contest, Broncos lost last 5, Warriors are well, Warriors. They were unlucky as Broncos got lucky, but after being down 0-10, Maumalo was magic. Green was great. I felt that last week was the down in the dumps drumming but this week they get back to it. With RTS back, and Nikorima probably back, and some belief, I expect better from now on

You'll be disappointed.

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#2517784 6-Jul-2020 07:20

Handle9:

tdgeek:

Good win last night. Absent were the two best players, RTS and Nikorima. TAB had Broncos strong favourites (thanks TAB for the money to me). It was like a wooden spoon contest, Broncos lost last 5, Warriors are well, Warriors. They were unlucky as Broncos got lucky, but after being down 0-10, Maumalo was magic. Green was great. I felt that last week was the down in the dumps drumming but this week they get back to it. With RTS back, and Nikorima probably back, and some belief, I expect better from now on

You'll be disappointed.

Based on the history books, most probably. I'll have some faith for the next couple of starts, see what happens

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#2518624 7-Jul-2020 16:45

Handle9:

Lol. It's all Georges fault - except that it pretty clearly wasn't his decision.

Not saying that, i agree its obvious SK wasnt performing, neither are the players, but the team he was told he would be coaching was dismantled by management. Also in his interview RE sacking SK, when George talks about it, he clearly says it was HIS decision and the Owners, in fact the further it went on the more it became the decision he made. Its human nature, survival of the fittest or those in position of blaming somebody else. He reminds me of a certain Fuhrer in WW2 who kept making mistake after mistake, starting off with an amazing offense, litle but little his mistakes have weakened the team, and those have been his decisions. The reality is neither George or Kearney are performing well enough so I expect him to be the next big chook on the block anyway. As the NRL show were saying, you cant keep developing and recruiting high quality players and then releasing them.

Its so dumb, Keighran was a 1 game purchase, why... as NRL show said, you should be playing your young talent, which they did with CHT but out of position, they should have CHT and Hayze Perham coming through. Then to purchase CNK, who was clearly ooooozing x factor and intensity, never play him in first grade, release him and he shows immediately how good he is at Raiders. Then there was releasing all our halves as well as CNK, then Sacking the key to our offense, our only truly dynamic player. If you were going to sack him why did you just release all the halves. These are management decisions that George clearly has know clue how a club is run. Small man syndrome. Im far from alone in thinking he has been the cancer to what was a fantastic team in 2018, which under performed which could be the coach but to dismantle it and then not cover the replacements, in fact release the replacements, is just stupid. And his potty mouth in public is embarrassing, we dont hear Coaches going aroind in conferences or team talks with cameras on laying down F bombs, why is it acceptable the CEO does. Hes a used car salesman at best. The other thing is you need a CEO who is not seen, manages the CLUB, has a great working relationship with a coach. I just cant see George ever being that.

On the bright side we may finally see a quality coach, thats the word on the street, they wont rush into getting just anybody but be patient until somebody of Bellamys calibre is obtained. They already approached bellamy who flat out said no (why would he), Wayne Bennett is the only modern coach to have changed clubs frequently and been successful, any boy we need a coach who can coach individuals. Trent Robinson has another year left, however I think if he indicated he would come for overs then Autex would wait for him and use Peyton in the mean time. If that doesnt occur the 2 biggest names for me are his understudy Fitzgibbon and Toovey. Ive been throwing Toovs around for years and not understanding why you wouldnt take a coach everyone else has forgotten who was axed after making a Grand Final because they thought Trent Barrett could be even better, oops, big mistake there. Toovey is exactly the kind of coach warriors need, he was the strongest player pound for pound in his day and hes not afraid to put the boot into big boppas to get them performing, at the same time he has the vision to see which individuals need one on one time based on game performance, which players have the ability of x factor but are just not delivering, I think he can turn our u20 players into NRL 1st grade super stars and not wait until they are 22yo to do so.

Player wise the most obvious player they are head hunting is a high quality centre. I think Patrick Herbert has been the defensive force in the warriors and he was robbed a try on Sunday by the refs imo but scored another anyway.

My only issue is still 6 and 9, Luke who the Warriors let go showed Egan how its done last night, pulled his pants down. Despite Egans late try near the try line, which is all he ever does is try to engage the markers to get a penalty or 6 restart (its not working Wade). Luke looked twice as fast out of dummy half making 10 metres then offloading. On Karl Lawton is close and thats due to his speed and intensity not because he started as a hooker.

Now for Kodi, I think long term he needs replacing, but I have seen him improving in the draw and pass stakes, not doing what Wade Egan is doing and hogging the ball. If he continues to do that and learn when the step and run is on, I think hes potentially 60% as good as Johnson, which will suffice for the next year. Will be interesting to see if Hayze Perham can force his way into playing 6 when CHT is 7 next year. I feel for Green, but to be fair, I think he lasted longer at the warriors than most expected. Sucks to get told your our next year, then put in a MOTM performance. CHT looks good, he has great vision, his grubber kicks are seldom long, his bombs are pin point, hes definitely got the goods for a top of the line game management half, even if when playing at 6 he doesnt have the step and off the mark speed you need from a 6, his 7 skills show through. So happy there.

The boys played well, Bris were very lucky with that cruel bounce over 6ft5 Kens fingers, was a freakish bounce and try. Warriors were unlucky on the first Herbert try. So I think the score line could have been more like 32-12

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#2518630 7-Jul-2020 16:49

tdgeek:

Good win last night. Absent were the two best players, RTS and Nikorima. TAB had Broncos strong favourites (thanks TAB for the money to me). It was like a wooden spoon contest, Broncos lost last 5, Warriors are well, Warriors. They were unlucky as Broncos got lucky, but after being down 0-10, Maumalo was magic. Green was great. I felt that last week was the down in the dumps drumming but this week they get back to it. With RTS back, and Nikorima probably back, and some belief, I expect better from now on

Yes if Nikorima continues to improve as a team player and RTS injects himself into the offense a bit more, I think we have a slim chance.

Just keep in mind some players are still looking at returning, luckily they are not crucial, but the likes of Passi are one of our few consistent weapons. Clearly Tohu is the best forward. Again he was running and stepping and offloading like a back. If only we had 2 more Tohus lol

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#2518656 7-Jul-2020 17:42

TeaLeaf:

tdgeek:

Good win last night. Absent were the two best players, RTS and Nikorima. TAB had Broncos strong favourites (thanks TAB for the money to me). It was like a wooden spoon contest, Broncos lost last 5, Warriors are well, Warriors. They were unlucky as Broncos got lucky, but after being down 0-10, Maumalo was magic. Green was great. I felt that last week was the down in the dumps drumming but this week they get back to it. With RTS back, and Nikorima probably back, and some belief, I expect better from now on

Yes if Nikorima continues to improve as a team player and RTS injects himself into the offense a bit more, I think we have a slim chance.

Just keep in mind some players are still looking at returning, luckily they are not crucial, but the likes of Passi are one of our few consistent weapons. Clearly Tohu is the best forward. Again he was running and stepping and offloading like a back. If only we had 2 more Tohus lol

I think Kodi is your Santner?? :-) If he runs it, like Toovey, like the General, the wee nippy players, he will be good. Who decides how he plays? The coach or him?? News article said he is the second best player. Well, he can be a play maker

I had a "modest" wager the other night. Down in the dumps after sacking SK, I thought, against another poor team, a wooden spoon playoff, they may show some fight, and they did. Broncos got lucky, Warriors made the luck. Id be tempted to see how Payton goes. Some of your previous posts talk about buying all this talent, that wont happen, as it costs, and they don't want to play for a bottom team. Coach wise, id see how Payton goes. Broncos were 0-5, so a win is not a big deal, but we played well, Green was very good, Maumalo was supreme, others chimes in. Its like the Black Caps, follow them and be burnt, but this Warriors team, with RTS and Kodi back has possibly the talent to be a top 8 team. But like was art early last season they got smashed by a poor team then beat the Storm? They need to play at a professional level, and first to admit, I dont know the effect of what the coach decides for each game, set plays wise. Maybe this team needs a basic set of plays, and the just play your hearts out

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#2519471 8-Jul-2020 18:35

tdgeek:

I think Kodi is your Santner?? :-) If he runs it, like Toovey, like the General, the wee nippy players, he will be good. Who decides how he plays? The coach or him?? News article said he is the second best player. Well, he can be a play maker

Hahaha no he is not as cruddy as cant bowl cant bat Santner haha

Ultimately its the 7 who calls the plays, but each individual plays what is in front of him. Ie if CHT calls draw and pass and Kodi sees he is going to be passing an intercept he clearly needs to hold on to the ball and either take on the line or change direction.

I agree with somebody like Toovey, Kodi Santner could be a handy 5/8th, but hes always going to have the tendency to hog the ball, thats why Bennett benched him and used him as utility. He would actually make a better 9 with his off the mark speed and ball hogging syndrome, would either catch markers offside via quick play the balls or he would make that 10m mark with ease like Luke was doing for the Broncos. This may still occur if Egan continues his horrible perception of what team player means and Hayze Perham turns out to be as electric at 5/8th as Johnson and RTS believe he is. That would solve the 2 biggest problems in the team with that change of position and Perham living up to his potential which is what the aussies keep saying is the reason we havnt won a GF, we do not develop our dynamic u20 players, that is very much a u20 and reserve grade coaching problem, if we change to Toovey Id like to see Peyton coach Res Grade as we need aussie coaches, the difference in development is night and day vs Kiwi coaches. The worst thing that could happen is to hire an Aussie coach who coaches like a Kiwi, this horrible beast will destroy the next 3-4 years, its Name is Nat Brown, eeek. Too many times George has mentioned him in the mix along with him having spent a few periods with the team now. Please no, Id rather retain Peyton and just wait. But the club has never had a super coach, after 26 years that is just shameful as the paying member deserve much better, they are paying the wages. Im just putting it to the back of my mind as it seems like something George would go all in on.

This team and club has the potential talent wise to rival the Chooks and Melbourne. They just never get the best brought out of the them and that is a coaching dilemma. Yet plenty of other kiwis go to other clubs and are hugely successful, so a big part of it is also cultural, as is the Warriors fan notion of Loyal to the Bitter end. That is absurd. It should be, will stop paying you my membership if you dont start performing.

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#2519474 8-Jul-2020 18:48

You know more than me but if Kodi as a wee nippy bloke, there is something wrong if the coach isn't telling him how to play, so he ends up choosing to hog the ball. IMO if he is not doing a Luke or General, he is just another player taking the ball up a few metres. Some one needs to create set plays, isnt that the coaches job? If Kodi was told to take off and use his speed to gain metres he is a threat. Then everyone tries to cut him down, fine, we have had the opposition waste players so Kodi now passes and not runs, we have drawn players in, now the others have space. But, the Warriors, I've seen them lose and they play very well, its just boring with no flair. You can have flair without being reckless, so whose job is that?

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#2519480 8-Jul-2020 19:12

tdgeek:

You know more than me but if Kodi as a wee nippy bloke, there is something wrong if the coach isn't telling him how to play, so he ends up choosing to hog the ball

The issue is coaches other than SK have tried. And the best in the business at improving players who should be at their peak outside minor tweaks is Wayne Bennett and he couldnt help Kodi.

I think the issue was/is Kodi thinks hes more important than he is. He wants to be a Reynolds or any one of the top 10 halves. He is never going to be and he needs to accept that. But he can work with what hes got and if the pass is on, hold onto it until the opposition centre thinks you are going to run, ie DRAW, then pass to our centre, who will flat pass it to one of our 2 awesome finishing wingers.

I have seen an improvement in that with Kodi. I just hope it continues.

However he was purchased as a stop gap, so either they do believe Perham can perform in the role, he is getting close to blooding him age if not already there, or they are looking for a 6 and a centre and are ignoring Egan while they have Lawton or Kodi to take over that role.

Put it this way, like I said he wll never be a top 10 half, but he could be 11th and easily be good enough for the job we need from him at 6 or 9.

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#2519483 8-Jul-2020 19:23

Ok, so Kodi is no good. Funny that last game a n article said we were down our two top players, so at least one media commentator rates him. Now, I missed the game thet we won, Kodi was in it big time, so how does that roll? Given that Kodi does what he wants, Wayne Bennett cannot help him, who told Kodi to run at everything? To me, the players domino decide what to do the coach sets a game plan

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#2519512 8-Jul-2020 20:21

tdgeek:

Ok, so Kodi is no good. Funny that last game a n article said we were down our two top players, so at least one media commentator rates him.

No Im with you, I dont think he is no good. Its just he has taken a long time to accept his role in a team, whether it the Bronx or the Warriors. He seems to have had this internal ego struggle, where he really wanted to be the key playmaker.

I think as Kodi matures, he is starting to mature as a person and can see where he has gone wrong in the past. He had a great game, despite losing the week before. So he has the potential, he always has, thats why Brisbane kept him as long as they did. But hes certainly not one of our 2 top players. Id put him down the list. Ken and Fus are by far much more offensive as very large backs coming in off the Wing on the angle, Ken made well over 200m on the weekend. I think Lawton is our dark horse and most under rated player. Patrick Herbert showed his offensive prowess along with absolutely nailing people in his tackles, he scored 2 tries one disallowed which many think was unfair. Green is clearly in our top 3 offensive weapons being the playmaker and caller in the team. Tohu Harris would also rank ahead, being a quick forward with a mean step off either side and I think the leading offloader last year and on his way again this year (we need people backing up to make the most of his play and attack). Even CHT Id have ahead of Kodi. Kodi wanted to be the 7 at the Bronx, I think he has finally accepted things as being seen at a 6 if he is a half. I get the feeling he realises if he doesnt make the most of this oppurtunity, he will be off to super league end of his contract. I hope for his sake he can keep up the team play like Johnson used to even when he was MIA on personal attack. Let Green or CHT do most of the kicking, draw and pass and step through a gap when one is created, that will put him a long way into retaining the 6 position, at least until whether or not the Warriors want to retain Perham (which like many aussie critics have been saying of late, would be crazy not to develop and play your local talent).

That will be Brandy. He thinks Kodi to be an attacking weapon. IMO since Brandy played for the Warriors a good 18 or so years ago, he has not kept up with the team or kept a relationship with anyone at the club. He said during the game exactly what you just said. In saying that, its fairly obvious that your 5/8th damn well should be one of your attacking weapons, which is why we need to make sure Kodi keeps improving or Hayze gets a crack at the job. I think using Kodi at 9 if Lawton keeps getting injured would be the way to go, get a specialist at the 9 position to give him some coaching, possibly somebody like Luke if he retires as he is one of the first new generation hookers, like Friend etc who are fast out of the play the ball. With this new 6 again rule instead of a penalty, it is even more important as they are giving them away easily in comparison to Wade Egan engaging the markers trying to get a traditional penalty. I think Kodi has the speed to get 10m+ on avg if he does end up in that position.

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