Formula 1 2023 Season Discussion

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#3129560 20-Sep-2023 01:24

Quick Google to confirm the rumour I’d read previously shows that yes, despite moving away to be more independent this year, the relatively crap performance of AlphaTauri has lead to a reshuffle and potentially even a significant relocation of the aero team from Italy to England to be more aligned with its sister team Red Bull. This includes an overall change to be much more like the red bull car design, and plans to purchase as much as they can from Red Bull parts wise, similar to what hASS do with Ferrari.

So… the AT seat could be much more attractive long term than it may initially appear today.

Williams as well is somehow performing at the moment too above its weight. Albon really staring in that seat as it’s clear he’s driving the pants off that thing.

Perez has really not had a good season. He upset the apple cart early on with dreams of a championship before Max beat that out of him and Perez was simply stunned. Red Bull want a good finisher but not to challenge Max. Perez hasn’t really been that this year.

DR is old for sure but then so is Alonso and Hamilton who are smashing it when given a car up to the task. They’re also world champions though so poor comparison. I keep thinking about how quickly they brought DR in as the replacement drive. Story goes after a few laps they were convinced so I hope there is some old DR form still in there waiting to be shown.

I’d prefer Lawson had a smoother intro experience than Red Bulls habit of breaking people. Albon didn’t survive there when new for example.

GV27

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#3129569 20-Sep-2023 06:16

Jaxson:

Albon didn’t survive there when new for example.

Albon was wiped out of some well-deserved podium spots by a certain Mercedes driver who has issues with leaving racing room - totally robbed him of momentum on the main seat.

langi27

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#3129605 20-Sep-2023 08:25

Rumer mill today doesn't look good for lawson getting a seat at AlphaTauri

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2023/09/motorsport-liam-lawson-reportedly-misses-out-on-2024-formula-one-seat-alphatauri-to-stick-with-daniel-ricciardo-and-yuki-tsunoda.html

Maybe they bigger plans for Lawson than AlphaTauri..........

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#3129686 20-Sep-2023 11:31

langi27:

Maybe they bigger plans for Lawson than AlphaTauri..........

Leaving him at AT doesn't make sense. Yuki supposedly has a deal from when the De Vries situation went down, Danny Ric hasn't had enough time in the seat and I feel Red Bull will feel like they owe him a fair go after he got injured in the AT in the first place.

The only really shaky part of the equation for my mind is Perez. He's not putting in the performances that the Red Bull is capable of, and Max has been in F1 long enough to not need a senior driver as a mentor. He's been in F1 for 12 years now, he's getting close to mid-30s, and they now have a driver overhang with a driver who is definitely good enough for a seat and a driver who is currently not hitting their marks sitting in a really good one.

I can't see Sargeant being dumped any time soon, he's the only American F1 driver and the sport is going gangbusters in the States. The odds of Williams dropping him are small at this point. Even if they did, sticking Lawson in there makes little sense while the Perez situation remains unresolved and there's other RB junior drivers that they might look to promote into the Williams in the fullness of time anyway. They've still got Hauger as well, and Iwasa.

So I'd say odds are there's a seat somewhere for Lawson, and even if it starts out being a Williams one next year, I wouldn't count on it being the end of the idea that he might in a Red Bull at some point next year.

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#3129857 20-Sep-2023 18:42

GV27:

Leaving him at AT doesn't make sense. Yuki supposedly has a deal from when the De Vries situation went down, Danny Ric hasn't had enough time in the seat and I feel Red Bull will feel like they owe him a fair go after he got injured in the AT in the first place.

The only really shaky part of the equation for my mind is Perez. He's not putting in the performances that the Red Bull is capable of, and Max has been in F1 long enough to not need a senior driver as a mentor. He's been in F1 for 12 years now, he's getting close to mid-30s, and they now have a driver overhang with a driver who is definitely good enough for a seat and a driver who is currently not hitting their marks sitting in a really good one.

I can't see Sargeant being dumped any time soon, he's the only American F1 driver and the sport is going gangbusters in the States. The odds of Williams dropping him are small at this point. Even if they did, sticking Lawson in there makes little sense while the Perez situation remains unresolved and there's other RB junior drivers that they might look to promote into the Williams in the fullness of time anyway. They've still got Hauger as well, and Iwasa.

So I'd say odds are there's a seat somewhere for Lawson, and even if it starts out being a Williams one next year, I wouldn't count on it being the end of the idea that he might in a Red Bull at some point next year.

I agree and disagree!

An F1 deal is meaningless. It doesn't mean you drive, it means you get paid. Re Yuki and Danny Ricc. Im not sure a fair go is in Marko's vocabulary. If DR went WOW, then a good choice, but IMO thats not the case. Give him a few more races then keep or discard him.

Perez, agree. He is decent, but so is most of the grid.

Sargeant sorry is poor. I watch F3 and F2 he is great. So was Albon and others. It depends if the team is any good. So Albon got a chance and was dropped, Sargaent wont last the season for the same reason. But as we all know Albon IS great. I feel that Marko will learn and give Lawson more time. Not that he needs it.

Sargeant and DeVries shone. But they did not translate to F1

Lawson WILL be in the RBR main team, no question. (Not due to Kiwi bias.) Williams is a great option. Its not a great car, same as AT, but its slippery so a driver there can get in the news as Albon often does

Lawson at his age, is the future. Fast and clean.

Jaxson

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#3129960 21-Sep-2023 02:19

Fast and clean is definitely the right assessment.
Keeping the car off the walls and going to the end of the race was/is critical and Lawson has done that in two demanding races so far. The fact that he’s also been fast is actually crazy good. Way to maximise your exposure opportunity!

Conscious of other good drivers that early promotion to Red Bull has hurt (Albon and Gasly for example) so hope likes of Horner will protect him to get the best out of him long term.

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#3129975 21-Sep-2023 07:19

Jaxson: Fast and clean is definitely the right assessment.
Keeping the car off the walls and going to the end of the race was/is critical and Lawson has done that in two demanding races so far. The fact that he’s also been fast is actually crazy good. Way to maximise your exposure opportunity!

Conscious of other good drivers that early promotion to Red Bull has hurt (Albon and Gasly for example) so hope likes of Horner will protect him to get the best out of him long term.

What was the reason for dropping Gasly and Albon? Crashes?

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#3129989 21-Sep-2023 08:27

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2023/09/motorsport-liam-lawson-s-non-selection-makes-mockery-of-red-bull-driver-programme-says-veteran-f1-expert.html

Not good

But, Williams would allow him to show off his wares better, IMO

langi27

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#3130089 21-Sep-2023 11:26

Wonder how the other Junior Redbull drivers are viewing this now, why would you want to be part of a dead end program that won't take you to the top. You work your butt off on the promise that if your good enough you'll get a shot. When that shot comes along, your hard work and loyalty mean nothing. They pick people (Perez, Riccardo) who were never in the program or left to chase a better deal.

From this I would take all the help Redbull offer, (up to F2) then as soon as better offer comes along take it with both hands and don't look back. Actively chase better offers as Redbull don't care eitherway.

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#3130102 21-Sep-2023 11:46

Agree. Looks like that Tsunoda is linked to Honda didnt help either. Probably not a contractual link but a cultural one that Honda will see as huge. Dismiss Danny Ricc and be landed with that cost, probably not. Better to have stated that Danny Ricc is in the team, we will review at season end.

Reserve driver for 2024, ouch, unless he gets loaned out. Potentially another wasted year hoping for a full drive in 2025 that doesn't happen

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#3130179 21-Sep-2023 14:30

Options with vague tiny possibilities

Aston Martin - Alonso if he retires, Stroll if they get real about his inability to perform.

Sargeant at Williams

Alfa Romeo - Bottas if he retires

Mercedes if Hamilton retires

It is what it is really. Only 10 teams so 20 drivers at any one time and that's always been the way - As in doesn't matter how great you are you need an opening to get a seat. And you need to magically be driving in one of the top 2-3 teams car at a point where it happnnes to be one of the best on the grid to actually stand a chance of winning races and championships.

Talent alone isn't enough, you need luck and backing etc.

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#3130182 21-Sep-2023 14:36

Jaxson:

Options with vague tiny possibilities

Aston Martin - Alonso if he retires, Stroll if they get real about his inability to perform.

Sargeant at Williams

Alfa Romeo - Bottas if he retires

Mercedes if Hamilton retires

It is what it is really. Only 10 teams so 20 drivers at any one time and that's always been the way - As in doesn't matter how great you are you need an opening to get a seat. And you need to magically be driving in one of the top 2-3 teams car at a point where it happnnes to be one of the best on the grid to actually stand a chance of winning races and championships.

Talent alone isn't enough, you need luck and backing etc.

Yep. I feel that Sargeant is a massive likelihood to go. Possibly may even go when Lawsons seat runs out after Japan. Be a nice drive too

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#3130297 21-Sep-2023 21:56

The driver's press conferences for Japan have been held featuring Yuki Tsunoda and, encouragingly for Liam Lawson, Tsunoda didn't announce a contract extension. He was questioned about this by Sky F1 and appeared to indicate there were talks but a deal was yet to be formalized/done.

Perhaps good news that RBR are still considering their options for 2024 and Lawson is still in the mix for a seat at AT. As Japan is likely to be his last chance to impress for the time being, he really needs to put together another great weekend on Tsunoda's home turf.

He has the benefit of 2023 track experience so hopefully he can shine and force a decision in his favour. Given how he's been going, you have to believe he will get this done.

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#3130308 21-Sep-2023 23:11

The media circus around drivers is crazy.

Everyone has an opinion. I expect a couple of things have to happen before we find out the 2024 drivers:

1. Liam has to finish Super Formula
2. Riccardo has to finish the F1 season or at least finish his 10 race loan deal.

I think at the end of that everyone will have a much better idea of the lay of the land.

My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.

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#3130645 22-Sep-2023 20:41

I think Liam Lawson's issues getting a 2024 seat arent on the track but off it. He's shown he's quick. Really quick and he's certainly put his name in everyones mind for a F1 seat.

The problem I suspect he faces is sponsorship. Its a problem pretty much any driver from this part of the world will face. With regards to AlphaTauri (or whatever they become) both Tsunoda and Ricciardo have lots of advertising and/or big company names behind them potentially bringing a lot of money to a team that signs them up. I think the same goes for Logan Sergeant to be honest. Sadly NZ just doesnt have the same clout.

So its possible a 2024 seat is just beyond him. Which might seem ridiculous considering he's shown how quick he is.

However; the opportunity he's had that he has absolutely grabbed with both hands and proven his speed has given an opportunity to get that sponsorship behind him. In his shoes I would be expecting his management team (so maybe RBR) to be getting that sponsorship cash behind him. Because he utterly deserves that. When he gets that his attractiveness to every team grows.

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