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6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3327340 3-Jan-2025 19:19

Great T20 between Auck v Cant.

Has been bizarre, tragic to see two auckland players collide in the outfield, both with what looks like broken arms, so thats 3 replacement players, 2 under the HIA rules and somebody to replace the 12th man. Lister and the import player Dixt.

Guptil looks like he could still play for NZ. Him and Will ODonnell were spanking Jamieson and Orourke 100+ metres. Then the player who has barely played domestic FC and for NZ Bevon Jacobs, wow what a talent NZ has batting wise, unfortunately he got picked up in the IPL, at such a young age and experience, so he will miss the next T20 international comp in march, but I think the experience he gets will make him all the better for NZ in general. I just hope NZC handle this young meteoric player's contracts with the experience of Munro etc. I want to see him play red ball, but a bit early for that, but he is a sweet timer of the ball that is for sure.

Mitch Hay and Cam Fletcher on display today as Fletcher has returned to Auck along with Jacobs but KJ is playing for Canterbury just looks odd. But KJ after initially getting pumped started delivering those bouncers off a length that have seen him break a number fingers. So hopefully his back remains well.

and to top it all off, brother vs brother, Jock Mckenzie monstered Gus Mckenzie not only to Eden Park concourse but all the way over and into the main ground. That is a rarity, huge hit.

Auck should have put on 200, Canterbury did well to restrict them to 180 odd which might see them win it.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3328312 6-Jan-2025 14:11

That was an excellent effort from the BC's given it was very much a test of a 3rd string squad, it shows the depth. Bowled SL out in the 40th for 178 with NZ chasing it down in the 26th over with 180/1. Superb.

Will Young continues to show his class. Had he been given a regular spot Im positive his Test avg would be a lot higher. A shame he didnt get the 100, but hes now avgn over 50 at a high SR. I think he makes an excellent 4 but could easily replace Kane at 3, so I hope he can form a longish career and play into his late 30s. He has the highest Home ODI avg in the world of circa 90. I think once he starts getting a fixed position he will continue to get better, hes very hard to get out and similar to Taylor and Rachin hes an aggressive shot maker but simply brilliant technique using proper cricket shots soley.

It does really put a question mark over Conway, especially with all the high quality young players coming through. He may not take a contract and do the same as Guptill and play the circuits.

Matt Henry no surprise with a 4fa on a pitch doing not much. Duffy is a 3rd stringer but he is making the most of his chances, Im not a big fan but I can see him improving to being consistent like Orourke and Henry. Nathan Smith also with a couple of critical wickets.

I think with 3 spinner all rounders and 4 pace bowlers it is great balance. GP hasnt had much of a bowl since the second Eng test with Santner as captain, I hope when Latham is back in they start using him more as his bowling is a point of difference in the team. But good to see him at 5, I think he deserves to be a 5 not a 7. With Orourke being the only player not much of a batsman its extreme depth without sacrificing wicket takers.

It will be interesting to see if KJ can get back in for the champions trophy, another strike bowler who can contribute as a batsman would fill out the team along with Latham opening pushing all the players down one. If Hay remains in, it also means Latham can concentrate on captaincy and batting leaving the gloves to Hay who is not only a good batsman but a genuine wicket keeper.

So many excellent young players coming through I think is a reflection of the Golden Era producing more kiwis wanting to play cricket, BJ Jacobs, Matt Fisher, Max Chu (WK), Zak Foulkes (high quality all rounder), Rhys Mariu (current FC avg 71, leading FC) and on it goes.

Once we shed some of Stead's drift wood and get the 3 formats with regular players I think we have the players to enter another good period. So hard for the Coach to be fair though, to select 3 specialist teams. Eng is a good example of focusing on Test cricket has seen them drop down the white ball formats (7th in ODIs). I do wonder if a specialist coach and teams for each format is warranted while retaining continuity as a group of "Black Caps".

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3328345 6-Jan-2025 17:22

Todays T20, Cleaver hits one over the fence for his brother to catch one handed lol. Only in little ole NZ.

Ppl talk about Cleaver and Will Young being unlucky, but I think also Tom Bruce has to be one of the most unlucky NZ players not to get a call up to Test honors, he didnt manage to convert his insane power from domestic to international T20i, but more firstly a very good red ball player at avg 46. Love watching him in Super Smash though, clean, powerful, clever. Hitting at SR230 today. IMO he should have been selected ahead of Nicholls.

Tom Bruce Profile - Cricket Player New Zealand | Stats, Records, Video

Henry Nicholls Profile - Cricket Player New Zealand | Stats, Records, Video

Bruce 65 from 31 NO today.

Aside from the Champions trophy this year, I think NZ need to put an excellent 15 man squad together for the Aussie Boxing day tour. These young guns are going to give the coach a good headache.

In other news, Ind have failed to make the WTC final, NZ probably had a part in that but in my opinion South Africa deserve to be in the final, should be a good Test match.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3328354 6-Jan-2025 17:58

Same with Munro as well in test cricket. Averages around 50 in first class cricket but was dropped after 1 test match in South Africa.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3328362 6-Jan-2025 18:32

Dochart: Same with Munro as well in test cricket. Averages around 50 in first class cricket but was dropped after 1 test match in South Africa.

Yep true. Yet Mitchell was picked with a FC avg in mid 30s and now his Test avg is dropping back to that reality.

Thats what I meant about Munro being ignored and people wonder why he decided to dedicate his career to the t20 circuit. I really dont want to see the likes of BJ Jacobs or Mariu be lost down that path. If Conway is not selected along with Mitchell, it makes room for these young batsmen who are going to likely offer 45+ at Test level but more importantly longevity.

I think something like this will see us scoring 400+ consistently again with a deep batting line up but importantly not touring Aussie and getting white washed again. 4 strike bowlers and the two spin for relief on the pace bowlers, that should put consistent pressure on the batsmen and importantly 3 of the pace bowlers can get 140kph+.

Latham
Mariu
Williamson
Young
Rachin
GP
Mitch Hay (WK)
KJ (if healthy)
Nat Smith
Matt Henry
Orourke

Zak Foulkes
Santner
Chapman

thermonuclear

600 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3328379 6-Jan-2025 19:48

TeaLeaf:

Aside from the Champions trophy this year, I think NZ need to put an excellent 15 man squad together for the Aussie Boxing day tour. These young guns are going to give the coach a good headache.

The Australian tour is still nearly two years away, the Boxing Day test begins 26th December 2026. Test-wise New Zealand is away to Zimbabwe mid-year and then this coming Christmas NZ has the West Indies at home for a three test series. Then in 2026 NZ is away for a three test series in England followed by that Australian tour at the end of that year.

Been reading the recent comments here about players to impress. Agree with the general impression that Duffy doesn't quite have what it takes at the top level though, as you say, he has been making every post a winner recently. Fair play to him, but I don't think he comes into contention once Sears and Jamieson (fingers crossed) come back. Likewise with Foulkes. I know he's a TeaLeaf favourite but I'm not seeing it just yet.

The player to most impress me recently is Tim Robinson. Think he looks the goods in white-ball formats at least. Thought the conversation on commentary the other day about finding room for Conway for the Champion's Trophy was amusing. I don't think Conway should get a look in for that tournament, Robinson should get the nod all-day everyday.

Squad-wise for the Champion's Trophy, maybe Williamson comes back into the team/squad. I'd personally like to see Sears go but I'm not sure of his injury status and he hasn't been playing, so I don't think he will get a call-up. Nevertheless, it's time to get on with refreshing the side and this mickey mouse tournament is a good place to start. Can't believe the ICC is kowtowing to the Indian government again and allowing them to play outside Pakistan. They should never have awarded the tournament to Pakistan with this issue well-known.

Dochart

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3328456 6-Jan-2025 21:26

For the Champions Trophy Will Young needs to be in the playing 11 though. It was a shame he was dropped early in the 2023 ODI World Cup. Tim Robinson for T20s has been looking good so far but I reckon for ODI the openers should be Ravindra and Young.

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TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3328484 6-Jan-2025 21:50

thermonuclear:

The Australian tour is still nearly two years away, the Boxing Day test begins 26th December 2026.

Yep. my point is we need to have our next generation players in amongst the likely skeleton/framework before then and to make sure we feed domestic form, as to not lose them down the same rabbit hole as we did with, as Dochart pointed out, Munro. I think white ball is the entry point for many and filling the test framework which we dont play a lot of, with these successful next era players.

Yes I agree on Duffy. To me he surprised, I saw him prior as not much of a strike bowler. but hes taken his chances successfully. I dont think hes a go to player but I can see him being a good injury backup. Hes mid to high 130s, but importantly he has been accurate. A key to our bowling success in the future is our height of release which is causing many opponents problems. Orourke had a beauty off a length unlucky not to go behind as it slammed directly into the batsmans fingers who was caught out by the steepling bounce off a good length. KJ and Orourke also swing a new ball which is handy along with decent pace.

We will have to disagree on Foulkes, but I think he needs more time in FC than Orourke did. I think the cricket world has switched to demanding quality pace bowlers who can also contribute with the bat, vs prior eras where you would have the 6 batsmen and a keeper then 4 bowlers with any batting being seen as more a plus. Kallis was an inflection point, brilliant player.

Mariu needs more time but what a start hes had to his career. Jacobs has barely started playing and gets picked up in the IPL, crazy stuff, but he is 100% a student of the game, the way he talks you can also hear the desire to succeed.

White ball wise I think we already have the players for a solid squad. but no harm testing out players this home season.

Josh Clarkson was impressive again today in his partnership with Tom Bruce. Both just such sweet timers of the ball who make clearing the rope look effortless, but the sensibility to keep it along the carpet when needed.

Dochart: For the Champions Trophy Will Young needs to be in the playing 11 though.

I think hes forcing his way in now with other players just out of form for far too long now, first Nicholls, now Conway possibly choosing the circuit route. Young made that 90 odd look effortless and won us the game in style.

lachlanw

164 posts

Master Geek

ID Verified

Subscriber

#3328555 7-Jan-2025 11:22

Yep true. Yet Mitchell was picked with a FC avg in mid 30s and now his Test avg is dropping back to that reality.

This is crazy talk, he is hardly a contraversial selection with an average in the top 10 of all time for NZ

https://www.espncricinfo.com/records/team/batting-highest-career-batting-average/new-zealand-5/test-matches-1

Earbanean

937 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3328660 7-Jan-2025 14:54

TeaLeaf:

Thats what I meant about Munro being ignored and people wonder why he decided to dedicate his career to the t20 circuit. I really dont want to see the likes of BJ Jacobs or Mariu be lost down that path. If Conway is not selected along with Mitchell, it makes room for these young batsmen who are going to likely offer 45+ at Test level but more importantly longevity.

That's a huge call to say a couple of new untested players will "likely offer 45+ at test level". That's seriously optimistic. In the entire history of test cricket, only 3 NZ players have test averages 45+. Williamson, Reid, Crowe. Even Ross Taylor is (slightly) less than 45.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3328715 7-Jan-2025 15:15

Earbanean:

That's a huge call to say a couple of new untested players will "likely offer 45+ at test level". That's seriously optimistic. In the entire history of test cricket, only 3 NZ players have test averages 45+. Williamson, Reid, Crowe. Even Ross Taylor is (slightly) less than 45.

Yep, its also hard because some of these young players may not get a settled place in the squad, similar to whats occurred with Will Young. I probably should have said 40+. I dont think there is a new Williamson yet but a couple of aggressive players seem to be similar in ability and positive style to a Taylor or Will Young in white ball, obviously they could fail at higher levels so only time will tell.

I think its important to reward domestic success versus support of players who have been struggling for a a couple of years now. IMO just important to get those players in and build our next era around those players who are obviously highly talented. Not a mass exodus, but I firmly believe in rewarding domestic form, especially those obvious young talented players who will fill out the next era team. Similar to rewarding Orourke with not a large FC sample but an obvious youth talent.

But there is no rush given how far away our next WTC cycle and the aussie tour occurs. Its harder now with the 3 formats but getting some of those younger players into the BC system is where it starts.

Earbanean

937 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3328720 7-Jan-2025 15:44

It's a really hard one to get right - and always has been for NZ. On the one hand, I think we err too much on loyalty to incumbent internationals, on the other hand, it's a huge step up from NZ domestic cricket to test cricket. It's one thing dinking journey men to the boundary of Seddon park. It's a complete other thing, facing Strac, Halewood, Cummins in Aus, or Jadeja, Ashwin, etc in India spin paradise. Think Raval, Papps, Horne, How, etc

Yes, the young guys need a chance, but it's a tricky balance around if and when to discard a current test player. It would be so much better if we had a NZ team in the Sheffield Shield comp, a la Warriors, Breakers, Phoenix.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3328721 7-Jan-2025 15:54

Earbanean:

it's a huge step up from NZ domestic cricket to test cricket. It's one thing dinking journey men to the boundary of Seddon park. It's a complete other thing, facing Strac, Halewood, Cummins in Aus, or Jadeja, Ashwin, etc in India spin paradise. Think Raval, Papps, Horne, How, etc

Yes, the young guys need a chance, but it's a tricky balance around if and when to discard a current test player.

Yep, if the team has lost its mojo. But I think NZ cricket is in a much better place with players than the FC a decade back.

The balance is indeed important to rebuild that mojo, especially with the likes of Williamson not far from retirement it sounds.

What would be good is to take the likes of Mariu etc and find a place in Sheffield and County early in their career. but NZC I think is highly unlikely to ever go down that path, wanting to keep NZ cricket at high quality as possible. But that Golfen Era does seem to have stoked a higher quality in NZ cricket, which makes sense with Heros like Taylor, Williamson, Watling etc being the young player idols.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3328722 7-Jan-2025 15:59

KJ swinging it both ways prodigiously today. Interesting to see if he bowls those spitting cobras off a good length, great to watch him back in action.

Edit: I think he should have gone to his best wicket taker after a number of outies bowl that fast in swinging yorker from that wide very high release.

haha instead its Foulkes, in swinger around the wicket to the lefty out wide which hit the deck straightened and took the poles.

now Foulkes also swinging it the other way to the right hander.

Foulkes being shorter is a good point of difference to KJ. Quality swing bowling.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#3329494 9-Jan-2025 12:12

any thoughts on the 2nd ODI performance?

Ravindra and Chapman were fantastic until they both fell close together which triggered a bit of a collapse. Rachin possibly a bit unlucky with a fantastic SL catch. But hes still getting out in the air similar to how Michael Clarke was until he committed to either hitting with purpose in the air or worked on playing along the carpet, not in between. I think when Ravindra figures that bit out he will be even stronger.

Santner is becoming stronger in his white ball batting, he can tonk it as far as the best of them when hes on.

Duffy is really impressing me with his away swing seam presentation, SL just couldnt connect with it. My only question is, does he have the nasty fasty in him to produce balls like KJ and Orourke off a good length when the swing dies or not much doing in the pitch. He should do with his height and mid to high 130s pace. The most improved for me this summer.

SL did well to reign NZ in when Rachin and Chapman had NZ looking at 300ish off the 37 overs. But the consistency at 7rpo for most of the match had pretty much done the damage.

I hope SL can deliver a close exciting 3rd match.

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