Formula 1 2021 Season Discussion

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Ultimate Geek

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#2825069 6-Dec-2021 14:30

Batman:

if Vestappen takes out Hamilton next race and both finish level on points, who will win?

the website currently has Vestappen has no 1.

It falls back to race wins if points are equal. Ves has 9, Ham has 8.

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insane

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#2825073 6-Dec-2021 14:37

GV27:

..I get Max being pinged for the braking bit, but if someone refuses a redress, I'm not sure what else he's meant to do. At that point it kind of seemed like a situation they'd both contributed to tbh...

..Lewis got a warning about a warning today, I'd hate to see what it would take for him to actually get penalised for something..

....The tedious British nationalism in the sport doesn't help either.

That's a fair point, if he slowed further he's loosing out to everyone on the track. Imagine if the pack was severally bunched up.

And sorry, you're not allowed to talk negatively about Sir Lewis, he is above reproach and reminds us in the press interviews how wise and measured he is compared to the young guns, and those few reckless drivers he's raced against, that may include Alonso, Max and Rosberg. And this is backed by Damon Hill so he must be right :)

I don't really mind how it happens but really really hope Max wins next weekend, or at least wins the championship. Failing that we put them into the octagon and let them duke it out, Max vs Lewis and Toto vs Christian. At least the rules in there are easier to understand.

GV27

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#2825082 6-Dec-2021 14:40

I just find it weird that Hamilton is involved in physical incidents with every driver he races for a title in close battles and yet the Brits maintain everyone else is the villain. At what point do they accept Lewis might be the problem?

He's had more run-ins with Verstappen this year than Schumacher had over his entire career, yet Schumi is still considered the tainted champion.

tdgeek

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#2825159 6-Dec-2021 18:45

Batman:

Example was yesterday, he understeered the penultimate corner in qualifying, instead of waiting for the car to turn he applied full throttle and oversteered into the wall. I don't think that incident directly changed the result today however, seeing there were so many twists and turns that took place today.

When you have a car that cannot compete on top speed, and while you squeeze every tenth out of it, you know they will run at max mode in Q3 last 2 minutes and blow your time away, you need to live on the edge all the time. Simple as that.

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#2825162 6-Dec-2021 18:52

ResponseMediaNZ:

Would you be saying it if it was Vettel or even Alonso? Take Indy Car what about our own Scott Dixon who is still at the top of his game after 19 Years and won the championship 6 times.

I don't get all the dislike of Hamilton these guys are at the top of the game in Motorsport, you cannot just get in an F1 car and race like Hamilton does. look at our own Hartley and how a successful Tin Top racer came to F1 and bombed out.

I think the core issue Justy is that in 2014 Mercedes gave hime car thats 2 seconds, yes 2 seconds, not 3/10 faster than anything else. Great car, top driver, but with that advantage, well its a foregone conclusion. That often gets dismissed. Take Vettel, yes his car was dominant apparently but it was mid field in the speed trap, so thats a great overall package, not a car that often seems in a different league. (And well done to Mercedes, its is the best car). George did a stint in it, drove away as Lewis would have done. maybe George is as good as Lewis or maybe a car that quick is just plainly that quick.

tdgeek

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#2825163 6-Dec-2021 19:01

Batman:

Hamilton deserves every thing he has achieved. I know he will definitely get 8 titles. I predicted that with 3 races to go. I just thought sometimes the race weekend was boring because they were always foregone conclusion with little action.

I am not sure Max should win anything this year after this morning. As I said he's just too immature.

Also if Hamilton wants to win 10 championships I believe he can. The only thing stopping him is him, and maybe his car, but that's only a maybe.

When I typed the original post I actually didn't realise Max brake checked Hamilton! I had to see the replay of the incident and it was definitely a brake check. Not an attempt to give back the position. I have striked out the post now.

1.As did every one else when you look at the track types.

2. So you don't like hard racing, well they both raced hard and they both went too far at times

3. Brake checked, depends on the scenario. Max was told to let him pass, he remained in the middle of the track, room either side, he slowed. Thats no problem as Lewis will know Max is letting him past, choose a side and do it, but he drive into him, as he wasn't told. Thats not Mx'e fault if Lewis wasn't aware of letting him pass. Plus both dont want to pass so they are disadvantaged by the DRS line. But yeah Ill brake so that Lewis crashes our cars, yeah, nah.

But yeah, i guess your governed by who you are the fan of, and while Brundle is a Hamilton fan, he criticised both. Who got warned about poor sportsmanship???

tdgeek

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#2825168 6-Dec-2021 19:10

insane:

That feels like a fair decision. I've watched the replays and think both drivers were being stupid the whole race. Having said that it is racing and they are both trying and should be trying to win!

Hamilton:

- Could so easily have blown past on the left, but probably thought there was a crash, safety card or yellow flags ahead that he couldn't see as Max would never give up a place so easily.
- Got distracted / zoned out and wasn't paying attention
- Happy to gamble on max coming off worse
- Lewis/Merc was bending the rules around the 10 car length gap, Bottas backing Max up etc trying to get into Max's head through silly media speeches and on track antics.

Max:

- Didn't feel he needed to give the position back and wanted to minimise the impact of trading places with the track not being conducive to close following or overtaking.
- Wasn't going to hand Lewis a place on a silver platter
- Happy to gamble on Lewis coming off worse

I feel the FIA have created the environment for the bad behavior based on their inconsistent penalties dished out throughout the year in a super tight race.

Yep. Tight and at times too tight. It seems here that Max braked hard in order to let Hamilton crash into humans damage both cars. Mac raced hard and smart and went too far at times. Lewis didnt race hard or smart, and got a sportsmanship warning.

Im over the VCS its rubbish. Two of the VSC's Max was ahead by 1.7, very soon after green it was 1.018. The other was similar but I forget the gap now, 1.2 I think. Reminds me when Markelov won at Monaco. He was at high speed so he gained massive time, and won. They are supposed to slow to 40%, but doit they have a delta? If yuoi are 1.7 behind, dont you need to stay 1.7 behind? See this all the time with VSC's Its a rough guide at best

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tdgeek

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#2825169 6-Dec-2021 19:13

Batman:

if Vestappen takes out Hamilton next race and both finish level on points, who will win?

the website currently has Vestappen has no 1.

VER has more wins, so would win on that basis.

If HAM takes out VER, VER would win

If HAM wins and they are even (if thats possible, not bothering to tally it) I guess sit goes back to most 2nds, most 3rds and so on?

Benoire

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#2825171 6-Dec-2021 19:18

I don't think its possible that Ham/Ver can be on even points and Ver not win due to the countback... If Ham wins then its a minimum of 6 points clear assuming that Ver gets 2nd with the fastest lap. I think Merc only need 3 points to win the WCC now.

tdgeek

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#2825174 6-Dec-2021 19:22

GV27:

Batman:

if Vestappen takes out Hamilton next race and both finish level on points, who will win?

Based on this year, it is far more likely that one of the Mercs will wipe out Max.

Hell, Bottas almost got it done at the first restart today. That would have been the scandal of the century.

Organised incidents are many in number. Whether it be quality and MSC, quali and ROS, MSC running Villineuve off but getting bogged in gravel himself (that was a season ender incident), Maybe Piquet Jnr crashing his car to suit the team strategy. Many more. All this is Tantamount to race fixing. Then we have team orders.

Its not a clean sport. But we have seen instances like Alonso and Webber duking uit corners and they get through it, many other examples. F1 is already sanitised, maybe we sanitise passing rules?

tdgeek

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#2825179 6-Dec-2021 19:29

GV27:

I just find it weird that Hamilton is involved in physical incidents with every driver he races for a title in close battles and yet the Brits maintain everyone else is the villain. At what point do they accept Lewis might be the problem?

He's had more run-ins with Verstappen this year than Schumacher had over his entire career, yet Schumi is still considered the tainted champion.

IMO Schummy could be seen as tainted as it was a more orchestrated sport than it is now. Indy, Rubens pulls aside, MSC wins another stunning race! But to me Mercedes deserve everything they get as they built the fastest car by a wide margin. RBR have done very well in a slower car to compete, even though their party mode can't match the other, hence the engines last longer. Max gets more out of that car than the car can deliver. Thats pretty special IMO.

I cant judge Hamilton as I dont have anything to judge him by. When you start off 2 seconds per lap ahead, party modes, favoured, thats unbeatable.

Max in the Merc and Lewis in the RBR?

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#2825182 6-Dec-2021 19:34

Benoire:

I don't think its possible that Ham/Ver can be on even points and Ver not win due to the countback... If Ham wins then its a minimum of 6 points clear assuming that Ver gets 2nd with the fastest lap.

Yes, they would need to run 9th and 10th, then scrap over the fastest lap.

tdgeek

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#2825192 6-Dec-2021 19:47

Technical question.

I know gear ratios are locked in for the season, and IIRC the max rpm is 15000, although they run quite a bit less than that, is the party mode locked in? Given that the last race is a power circuit, and RBR doesnt have top end speed, let alone the tow and DRS, what can they do to close that gap as a one off? Apart from the rear wing? I guess if RBR max rpm is locked in, thats pretty much it.

Benoire

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#2825247 6-Dec-2021 19:49

Engine mode is locked in at the start of quali I believe and it cannot be changed during the rest of the event. This does allow more power from an engine to be changed for each race but you can't now change it on the fly.

Benoire

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#2825248 6-Dec-2021 19:50

Obviously each engine responds differently to these changes. Max rpm is controlled by the regs but its rarely hit.

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