Nice!

Been looking at replacing the aging (25+ years old) Mongoose DH/Freeride frame that I've got on the trainer currently.  It was sitting there, figured I might as well get some more use out of it.  It has proven that I definitely get the use out of the trainer.

However, the frame geometry is significantly different to the current Trek Slash.  Mainly in where the seat is able to be located relative to the BB center.  Since I went to all the trouble of getting a bike fit done on the Trek and I spend more time on the trainer, it makes sense to have that equally well set up.

I have a Wahoo Kickr V6 as the smart trainer base.

I initially looked at a Zwift Ride as the frame would just drop on to the trainer and we'd be away and racing.  However, for whatever reason Wahoo/Zwift refuses to sell the frame only in NZ and you can't (that I've found) get it shipped here from any outlets overseas.  Pity as that would be a straight $1400, one and done.

Next option was the Zwift Ride kit that includes the Wahoo Kickr Core and Cog units at $2700.  Expensive considering the trainer part is a downgrade and you wouldn't be able to make the difference back by on selling the Core.

Went through a few permutations of potential bikes to drop on it, around the $1k mark but all complicated by gearing differences between the entry level bikes and the 11 speed cassette on the trainer.  Fixes for that are either swap out the shifter (and probably derailleur) from the Mongoose or the cassette from the bike onto the trainer and lose a few intermediate gears.
THe other side issue being that MTB frames/cranks are limited to maybe 36T chainrings at most.  Kind of on the low side for Zwift as I discovered, though 36T is an acceptable minimum so long as you aren't at the pointy end of the racing.

Doing some more research on the Cog & Click unit, it looks like that would mean bike gears are no longer relevant and it could cope with the smaller chainring as it's some how virtual gearing.  So for that I could get an entry level hardtail MTB frame (Trek Marlin for example) to maintain the same riding position but not have to spend mega dollars to get something with the right gearing etc.

Has anyone used the Cog thingy and knows anything about it?

Or have some blindingly obvious thing that I'm missing to figure out a suitable trainer bike without spending massive amounts on it.

geoffwnz:

 

Been looking at replacing the aging (25+ years old) Mongoose DH/Freeride frame that I've got on the trainer currently.  It was sitting there, figured I might as well get some more use out of it.  It has proven that I definitely get the use out of the trainer.

 

However, the frame geometry is significantly different to the current Trek Slash.  Mainly in where the seat is able to be located relative to the BB center.  Since I went to all the trouble of getting a bike fit done on the Trek and I spend more time on the trainer, it makes sense to have that equally well set up.

 

I have a Wahoo Kickr V6 as the smart trainer base.

 

I initially looked at a Zwift Ride as the frame would just drop on to the trainer and we'd be away and racing.  However, for whatever reason Wahoo/Zwift refuses to sell the frame only in NZ and you can't (that I've found) get it shipped here from any outlets overseas.  Pity as that would be a straight $1400, one and done.

 

Next option was the Zwift Ride kit that includes the Wahoo Kickr Core and Cog units at $2700.  Expensive considering the trainer part is a downgrade and you wouldn't be able to make the difference back by on selling the Core.

 

Went through a few permutations of potential bikes to drop on it, around the $1k mark but all complicated by gearing differences between the entry level bikes and the 11 speed cassette on the trainer.  Fixes for that are either swap out the shifter (and probably derailleur) from the Mongoose or the cassette from the bike onto the trainer and lose a few intermediate gears.
THe other side issue being that MTB frames/cranks are limited to maybe 36T chainrings at most.  Kind of on the low side for Zwift as I discovered, though 36T is an acceptable minimum so long as you aren't at the pointy end of the racing.

 

Doing some more research on the Cog & Click unit, it looks like that would mean bike gears are no longer relevant and it could cope with the smaller chainring as it's some how virtual gearing.  So for that I could get an entry level hardtail MTB frame (Trek Marlin for example) to maintain the same riding position but not have to spend mega dollars to get something with the right gearing etc.

 

Has anyone used the Cog thingy and knows anything about it?

 

Or have some blindingly obvious thing that I'm missing to figure out a suitable trainer bike without spending massive amounts on it.

 

Handsomedan:

 

It was all going so well until you got to the Cog and Clicker thing and then I got lost. 

But yes - if you can get away with a cheaper HT MTB that has a similar STA to the Slash, that would seem to be the most appropriate course of action...and then cogs and clickers and stuiff. 

 

As far as I can tell, it's a single 14T (I Think) cog in some sort of housing.  Between that and the "click" shifters it allows for 24 gears while using Zwift.  Some sort of magic in between obviously.

The official blurb on the Wahoo site sounds like it's the "perfect" solution to my problem.  However, that could just be marketing speak.  ;-)

Might go re-read what DC Rainmaker had to say about it.

I've not used the cog and clicker but I've done a bit of research and might be able to help.

From what I know. As long as Zwift is the only training platform that you use then the cog and clicker is a great solution for accomodating multiple bikes on a trainer with different gearing setups. Virtual shifting is currently proprietary to Zwift so not compatible with other platofrms (Rouvy, MyWoosh etc....) but Zwift have said that they will make an API for it to become and open standard. Some platform might have already implementing since I did my digging. But you also don't really need the cog, as long as you can find a cog a deraileur set-up that lines up without jumping out of gear then you can get by with just the clicker. Might still be simpler to get the cog?

Senecio:

 

I've not used the cog and clicker but I've done a bit of research and might be able to help.

 

From what I know. As long as Zwift is the only training platform that you use then the cog and clicker is a great solution for accomodating multiple bikes on a trainer with different gearing setups. Virtual shifting is currently proprietary to Zwift so not compatible with other platofrms (Rouvy, MyWoosh etc....) but Zwift have said that they will make an API for it to become and open standard. Some platform might have already implementing since I did my digging. But you also don't really need the cog, as long as you can find a cog a deraileur set-up that lines up without jumping out of gear then you can get by with just the clicker. Might still be simpler to get the cog?

 

Thanks for that.  It matches the research I have done so far.  No desire to use anything other than Zwift currently.  I mostly just ride or do workouts rather than racing so it works perfectly for that.

Basically, unless I discover something that means the Cog setup will be troublesome, I'll get that as it very much looks like it'll do exactly what I need for less than messing around turning entry level bikes into 11 speed.

Depends what you want to do on the trainer. I'd imagine Zwift will need gearing. 

I'm using mine mostly for intervals. So I don't actually shift. I just keep the chain nice and straight and pedal what it asks me to. 

Fortunately I have on old hardtail commuter that I've managed to set up the same as my mountainbike in terms of position. Even my partner has been using it which we get my with having two saddles and seat posts. What has complicated it is she is using Rouvy to do group rides (like Zwift I imagine) but the mountainbike gearing is way too low. I actually just had a single ring on it to match my main mountain bike. But I've now had to put a triple on as on Rouvy you wind up spinning out on the flats and coasting as soon as it points down. I do like the virtual rides around NZ, it's nice way of doing a boring base ride. But it was annoying I couldn't get around the gearing.

I'd be wary about the cog at this stage as it's currently tied to Zwift.

Its worth looking at the old Mongoose, if you can drop the front end you may get closer to your Slash's seat tube angle (we use a brick under the front wheel for my partner) and I remove it for my training. 

mudguard:

 

Depends what you want to do on the trainer. I'd imagine Zwift will need gearing. 

 

I'm using mine mostly for intervals. So I don't actually shift. I just keep the chain nice and straight and pedal what it asks me to. 

 

Fortunately I have on old hardtail commuter that I've managed to set up the same as my mountainbike in terms of position. Even my partner has been using it which we get my with having two saddles and seat posts. What has complicated it is she is using Rouvy to do group rides (like Zwift I imagine) but the mountainbike gearing is way too low. I actually just had a single ring on it to match my main mountain bike. But I've now had to put a triple on as on Rouvy you wind up spinning out on the flats and coasting as soon as it points down. I do like the virtual rides around NZ, it's nice way of doing a boring base ride. But it was annoying I couldn't get around the gearing.

 

I'd be wary about the cog at this stage as it's currently tied to Zwift.

 

Its worth looking at the old Mongoose, if you can drop the front end you may get closer to your Slash's seat tube angle (we use a brick under the front wheel for my partner) and I remove it for my training. 

 

When using Zwift in Erg Mode doing workouts etc, gearing doesn't matter.  If just loads up the trainer as it needs to in whatever gearing you pick (straightest chainline).  Doing rides or racing, you need the gears and yep, a 30T chainring was not cutting it.  36T is adequate but will still spin out on sprints or downhills.

Definitely can't fit a front derailleur on the Mongoose so the multi ring option is a no go.

Not fussed about it being tied to Zwift as that's all I use and intend using.  And if for some reason I stop using Zwift, there's still the cassette that came with the Kickr and the one on the bike wheel.

From what I can tell the Cog with it's virtual gearing removes the small chainring issue while in Zwift.

The Mongoose is currently on the trainer but to drop the front end I'd need to take the front wheel out entirely and somehow sit the forks on something to prevent grinding the bottoms of the forks or brake caliper mount and still allow some turning movement.

And anyway, who doesn't want new toys?  ;-)

geoffwnz:

 

The Mongoose is currently on the trainer but to drop the front end I'd need to take the front wheel out entirely and somehow sit the forks on something to prevent grinding the bottoms of the forks or brake caliper mount and still allow some turning movement.

 

And anyway, who doesn't want new toys?  ;-)

 

 

 

Ah I was more thinking if you had an air fork on it, just let it out, or if it's coil, take it out too. 

But yeah wasn't redly a problem for me until someone wanted to share 😂

But I agree it was a concern, I'm trying to get ready for the Whaka and didn't want all my seated pedalling to be in a really old school saddle way behind the BB position. 

mudguard:

 

geoffwnz:

 

The Mongoose is currently on the trainer but to drop the front end I'd need to take the front wheel out entirely and somehow sit the forks on something to prevent grinding the bottoms of the forks or brake caliper mount and still allow some turning movement.

 

And anyway, who doesn't want new toys?  ;-)

 

 

Ah I was more thinking if you had an air fork on it, just let it out, or if it's coil, take it out too. 

 

But yeah wasn't redly a problem for me until someone wanted to share 😂

 

But I agree it was a concern, I'm trying to get ready for the Whaka and didn't want all my seated pedalling to be in a really old school saddle way behind the BB position. 

 

Marzocchi Bomber Z1 from the late 90's.  Air wasn't a spring back then.  😄Would have to take the coil out of it's oil bath.
Oh and then entirely replace the bars and stem to bring them back into a useful position.  Otherwise I'm just riding downhill, still with the wrong bike fit.  ;-)

I just know that the week after I get it all sorted, Wahoo/Zwift will kindly allow the Ride frame only to finally be shipped/sold here.

geoffwnz:

 

Oh and then entirely replace the bars and stem to bring them back into a useful position.  Otherwise I'm just riding downhill, still with the wrong bike fit.  ;-)

 

 

 

One perk of never getting rid of stuff 😂 I've got all kinds of bars, stems, shocks, forks etc. One day I'll purge some of it.

But I will admit the trainer has been useful. Even the intervals have been OK. At least the session goes faster. I do draw the line at doing my mandated "long" rides on the trainer. Much prefer to do those outside. 

mudguard:

 

geoffwnz:

 

Oh and then entirely replace the bars and stem to bring them back into a useful position.  Otherwise I'm just riding downhill, still with the wrong bike fit.  ;-)

 

 

One perk of never getting rid of stuff 😂 I've got all kinds of bars, stems, shocks, forks etc. One day I'll purge some of it.

 

But I will admit the trainer has been useful. Even the intervals have been OK. At least the session goes faster. I do draw the line at doing my mandated "long" rides on the trainer. Much prefer to do those outside. 

 

The Mongoose is already a Frankenbike.  🤣

Yep, definitely getting decent use out of the trainer and Zwift.  Those winter evenings when it's sideways sleeting, I can just pop into the garage and do some usefully targetted training indoors vs calling it a "rest day" and skipping the session entirely.  Also, the specific workouts are much better for me than cruising on the river trails instead of finding some decent hills.  But yep, agree that the weekend sessions are generally outside on the real bike on the real trails.

Just did a "short, flat and easy" rehab ride (40km in just over 2 hours) on the river trails in perfect blue sky conditions.

Since we've been dicussing it I will link this here in case anyone in Auckland is looking for an entry into indoor training.

Elite Suito-T indoor bike trainer

So, updates.

I got and installed the Cog & Click earlier in the week, still with the Mongoose on the trainer.

Gave it a test ride on both a workout that had "free spin" segments and on a climb portal going both up and down it.

As noted, gearing within the Erg Mode of the workout was irrelevant but on the free spin segments I could click up through the "gears" and get it working as intended.

Testing the climb portal that had gradients up to 16%, never got below 4th on the way up compared to previously being in mountain bike 1st gear and still having to stand up.

Coming back down I was able to kick it up to 20th (of 24 gears) and hit around 85kmh before running out of steep enough portion of the route.

So, it does exactly what it says on the tin and provides 24 virtual gears by figuring out the appropriate load and presumably the resulting gearing to give a speed within Zwift.  The Garmin linked directly to the trainer was recording around 30kmh at all times due to the actual gearing and the RPM.

And then, today, popped down to the bike shop with the good bike so we could do some side by side comparisons and measurements.

Picked out a Trek Marlin 5 that had the closest dimensions on paper and did some tweaking and it looked to be in the right ballpark.

So I now own two Trek bikes.  :-)

Have set the new one up on the trainer and played matchy matchy with all the settings and it seems to be bang on.  Just need to actually ride it now.

I recently got a great deal on a Shimano XT 8150 Di2 electronic rear derailleur and shifter for my eMTB. 

These are the version before the one that's just been released and was designed to interface with the EP6 and EP801 eMTB motors (it's hardwired into the motor and the controller interface) . 

Had it fitted last week, along with a 170mm air shaft for my fork. 
Was an interesting exercise, as I ordered my airshaft from Shockcraft in Alexandra and they received a different version than that ordered from their supplier - a 2025 airshaft as opposed to the 2019-2024 version that is specific to my fork. 
As it turns out, I got a mild upgrade at no additional cost, so everyone was a winner on the day. 

The new setup got a thorough workout in the mud on Saturday and I have to say, I achieved everything I wanted. 

Electronic shifting is remarkably quick and precise, with a cool whizzing sound every time you change gear. 
It's also able to shift either automatically (rubbish when riding offroad) and using "Freeshift" which is shifting without pedaling. 

The longer fork travel allowed me to reduce pressure slightly and run more sag, which gave me a slightly plusher feel and a generally "smoother" ride. 

Feels like I am riding an electric Downhill bike now. 

Oh - and I have also got a new saddle, which is WAY more comfortable than the stock one and allows me to ride longer, further and more comfortably. 
It's the old classic SDG Bel Air III