Air NZ: NZ1 - New York to Auckland.

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#2970260 19-Sep-2022 17:11

Scott3:

Wonder how much fat is in the plane / crew schedules?

An unscheduled fuel stop would seem preferable to leaving a decent chunk of the passengers luggage behind.

Pretty sure this has happened on a flight I was on. PAL Auckland to Manila via Cairns (unscheduled operational stop in Davao). Old plane, completly full due to date of travel. Economy heavy 2 class layout etc.

It's not that easy. You can't just pull into an airport and refuel outside an emergency situation.

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#2970266 19-Sep-2022 17:27

Handle9:

It's not that easy. You can't just pull into an airport and refuel outside an emergency situation.

I have no industry knowledge, but I imagine it could be arranged with appropriate notice etc.

I.E. if PAL knew a fortnight in advance, that the combination of aircraft allocated to the leg, and predicted loading was going to be an issue, then they could reach out to Davao airport and see if they could secure a slot for the purpose of refueling.

No real reason for the airport to say no. Might as well collect the landing and parking fees.

Another post said it is fairly common for flights out Queenstown to Aussie.

eracode

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#2970270 19-Sep-2022 17:52

Emirates B777 flights between Auckland and Dubai always make a refuelling stop in Kuala Lumpur, in both directions.

This will cease when they reintroduce their A380s to this route sometime soon.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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#2970280 19-Sep-2022 18:19

Scott3:

Handle9:

It's not that easy. You can't just pull into an airport and refuel outside an emergency situation.

I have no industry knowledge, but I imagine it could be arranged with appropriate notice etc.

I.E. if PAL knew a fortnight in advance, that the combination of aircraft allocated to the leg, and predicted loading was going to be an issue, then they could reach out to Davao airport and see if they could secure a slot for the purpose of refueling.

No real reason for the airport to say no. Might as well collect the landing and parking fees.

Another post said it is fairly common for flights out Queenstown to Aussie.

Two weeks out, sure but the decision to offload to take more fuel is being made with a much shorter timeframe.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2970283 19-Sep-2022 18:47

A picture & link to the FlightRadar24 for the Flight. Interestingly, this says the Flight Distance was 14,207Kms, and a google search says a Boeing Dreamliner 787-9 can do 14,140kms. As someone else above said, there are FAA\IATO\ICAO rules around how muhc fuel they need to have in reserve.

I'd hazard a guess, if the flight had to divert for whatever reason, CHC is the likely Airport too. So, that would have to have been factored in as well.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/nz1#2d820706

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2970284 19-Sep-2022 18:49

A quick google found this around ICAO Fuel reserve requirements

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/3740/what-are-the-icao-fuel-reserve-requirements

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#2970288 19-Sep-2022 19:18

Ohakea Airforce Base is still a divert Airport should Auckland be closed, even Wellington would work as the plane would be pretty low weight with the fuel tanks nearly empty. Air NZ flew in cast/crew for Avatar 2 a couple of years ago from LAX to WLG, also during the Marsden Point fuel pipe rupture they flew a few 787-9s down here to load up on fuel so they could fly long distance out of Auckland.

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#2970289 19-Sep-2022 19:26

Scott3:
One stuff comment claims to have a fairly reliable source that the return flight will be stopping in Tahiti for fuel.

An option, but would mean carrying fuel to get to an alternate airport over 1000km away (Raro is 1157km, but runway is much shorter at 2328m.)

I think that making a (unscheduled) stop on the return leg (only when passenger loads are high) is probably one of the better outcomes for this route, if weight is an ongoing issue. Really it's that, sell less tickets or buy/lease a longer range plane (777-200LR / 777-8 / A340-500 / A350-900ULR).

On the other hand QANTAS has also announced the same route on the 787 Dream-liner, so perhaps this will be a very rare event.

Up to 35,000 with this technology:
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_134405.htm

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#2970304 19-Sep-2022 20:41

Hypothetically, how long for a best case fuel stop in Tahiti?

boosacnoodle

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#2970307 19-Sep-2022 20:56

gzt: Hypothetically, how long for a best case fuel stop in Tahiti?

EK449 (referenced above) is 1hr 35m stop. This sounds about right by the time you factor in taxiing, etc.

Tinkerisk

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#2970309 19-Sep-2022 21:25

WyleECoyoteNZ:

A quick google found this around ICAO Fuel reserve requirements

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/3740/what-are-the-icao-fuel-reserve-requirements

IT‘S NOT FUEL ONLY boys, ETOPS as well. 60 or 180 or 90 minutes i.e. to reach the alternate (time depends of relevant authorities and aircraft). Never fly with Google „knowledge“ alone.

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#2970333 20-Sep-2022 06:50

Sure is pushing the 787-9 Dreamliner to the limit.

The East cost USA must be a big market for the AirNZ to make all the effort to tap into. Is there not closer routes which would yield higher passengers to focus on?

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#2970335 20-Sep-2022 07:26

Shindig:
Sure is pushing the 787-9 Dreamliner to the limit.

The East cost USA must be a big market for the AirNZ to make all the effort to tap into. Is there not closer routes which would yield higher passengers to focus on?

The revenue per kilometre looks pretty solid. They seem to be getting around $12-17k at the front of the plane and selling most of the economy seats as well at a minimum $3k-4k. They are pretty solid numbers for a very efficient aircraft.

They’ll likely be making more per passenger than Emirates on Dubai to Auckland and freight will likely be attractive as well. The 787 isn’t a big plane so they don’t have huge numbers of seats to sell.

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#2970336 20-Sep-2022 07:31

eracode:

Emirates B777 flights between Auckland and Dubai always make a refuelling stop in Kuala Lumpur, in both directions.

This will cease when they reintroduce their A380s to this route sometime soon.

Or the 777-200LR that was previously used on this route. I assume they're using the 300ER for operation reasons, possibly for the larger capacity (people/cargo) since they've removed other services via Australia.

frankv

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#2970340 20-Sep-2022 08:00

Scott3:

An option, but would mean carrying fuel to get to an alternate airport over 1000km away (Raro is 1157km, but runway is much shorter at 2328m.)

AirNZ has run 787s to Raro before, so I don't expect that would be a problem with that as an alternate. Obviously, if they had to land at Raro they would be light on fuel, and would only need to take on enough to get to Auckland (plus reserves).

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