Homeless in NZ

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#1828135 24-Jul-2017 09:15

kryptonjohn:

Read the thread, there has already been clarification around the issue of data sources and methodology not being at all similar despite the authors choosing to represent the data as if they were.

UHD

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#1828136 24-Jul-2017 09:16

tdgeek:

Geektastic:

cadman:

Geektastic:

I listened to something on RNZ the other day, an interview with a lady who works with the homeless. She said that quite a lot of them were 'intentionally' homeless and that when they were provided with alternatives they would often reappear on the streets within days.

I have no idea why that is.

However, if the people truly do not want to live in houses etc (and to be honest, how would they pay rent etc?) I think we could throw up large dormitories based on industrial sheds (to keep the design simple and the cost reasonable) and then allow them to stay there. Even in NZ it ought to be possible to build such things relatively quickly.

Mental health.

Even if building these dormitories was a good idea, which I certainly don't believe it is, where could you even put them with the typical NZ NIMBY attitude?

It may not be a permanent solution, but surely better than sleeping on a park bench in the rain?

Nailed it in reverse.

Homeless is not JUST the park bench brigade, and all sympathies to them. Its the many others who are homeless, and displaced but have a legitimate roof over their heads. Living a poor, unhappy life with no outcome.

Me. I could not care less if house prices halved, mortgage rates doubled. I can wear it. I am fortunate enough to be able to wear it. So, my ideal is the poor, to help them. I can vote as I have voted in the past, but I might not. I might vote for social gain. Even though its not my social gain.

Are you saying I'd be homeless if I was unhappy with my living situation?

kryptonjohn

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#1828138 24-Jul-2017 09:17

UHD:

Read the thread, there has already been clarification around the issue of data sources and methodology not being at all similar despite the authors choosing to represent the data as if they were.

10 pages long, didn't have time!

Cheers

tdgeek

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#1828140 24-Jul-2017 09:26

UHD:

I said if you were poor and homeless, you will be living an unhappy life

trig42

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#1828165 24-Jul-2017 09:49

I have (quickly) read this thread.

Apart from the slinging left and right between a couple of posters, I didn't see a lot of solutions. There is a housing issue, there is a poverty issue.

What do we want the Government to do? How can they fix it?

I have been a National voter all my voting life. I am considering changing (mostly because this government is dragging its feet over Auckland's public transport and it needs fixing yesterday). I probably won't change, but if Labour could convince me that they have a plan for the Homeless (and Auckland's transport) I could well vote for them.

Unfortunately, though, I have the feeling Labour have no idea how to fix it themselves, and will just borrow a sh*t ton more money, hire a heap more bureaucracy, and funnel it down without a plan and the problem will remain (just that everyone else will also be worse off). I'd like to be wrong, but IMHO they have no idea and a weak, angry leader, and that scares me.

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#1828196 24-Jul-2017 09:59

trig42:

I too am considering changing for the first time in decades. My reason is housing and health. National started the housing issue when they sold large numbers of state houses in their first term and didnt replace them. They said it was to be a redevelopment, but coupled with a booming economy and mass immigration it was a disaster waiting to happen.

As far as Auckland transport is concerned and not being an Aucklander, I am cautious about too much taxpayers money being spent on this when the Auckland Council over the years has in many ways created this situation. Again National promised a much needed Local Govt shakeup but this has not occurred.

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tdgeek

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#1828220 24-Jul-2017 10:18

Me too. The Govt can work on housing and health here. Whatever any Govt does on the international front is very watered down, we go where the globe takes us. So lets put more effort into NZ, its people and its environment

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#1828222 24-Jul-2017 10:22

The changes required are systemic.

The single biggest issue is that NZ is a low wage economy, dependant largely on primary industry. Primary industry is great - we all have to eat - but it is also very easy to replicate provided you have land and water, which many places do. Tourism is great but NZ can't exist by being a giant theme park for the rest of the world.

We need something akin to an industrial revolution, shifting NZ into a service based economy which attracts inward investment from the modern money generators. That requires a strategic approach: a Singapore-like plan that is laid out and which will, over 25 years or something, take NZ where it needs to get to.

At the moment I see no political party with that approach: it's ALL short term, firefighting reactive policy making, to be honest.

tdgeek

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#1828226 24-Jul-2017 10:30

Geektastic:

The changes required are systemic.

The single biggest issue is that NZ is a low wage economy, dependant largely on primary industry. Primary industry is great - we all have to eat - but it is also very easy to replicate provided you have land and water, which many places do. Tourism is great but NZ can't exist by being a giant theme park for the rest of the world.

We need something akin to an industrial revolution, shifting NZ into a service based economy which attracts inward investment from the modern money generators. That requires a strategic approach: a Singapore-like plan that is laid out and which will, over 25 years or something, take NZ where it needs to get to.

At the moment I see no political party with that approach: it's ALL short term, firefighting reactive policy making, to be honest.

Can you clarify this.

mattwnz

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#1828328 24-Jul-2017 12:51

I wonder how much spin the government are feeding us on this. They claim there are 10000 new jobs being created every month which is around 120000 a year. So this is why they have increased immigration. But that would also mean we need at least 60000 new houses every year just to cope with this growth. But nowhere near that number are being built. It appears we are importing workers to build houses for those imported workers. Doesn't sound very sustainable long term. I suspect the governmebts job numbers aren't that accurate as many may be just temporary.

MikeAqua

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#1828351 24-Jul-2017 13:19

The homeless people I see in both Wellington and Nelson appear to be suffering from mental health issues.

I suspect they would need wrap-around care, because even providing them free or subsidised housing will probably not enable them to function independently. I'm not sure which comes first - the mental health issues or the homelessness. But it's pretty bloody sad.

I'm seeing the people who are definitively homeless and there may be much larger group that are living in over crowded accommodation or couch-surfing or whatever. Some of them will have similar issues that prevent them from renting a property and some may just be short of cash.

It's a freaking mess. I don't see a solution.

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MikeSkyrme

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#1828366 24-Jul-2017 13:26

mattwnz: I wonder how much spin the government are feeding us on this. They claim there are 10000 new jobs being created every month which is around 120000 a year. So this is why they have increased immigration. But that would also mean we need at least 60000 new houses every year just to cope with this growth. But nowhere near that number are being built. It appears we are importing workers to build houses for those imported workers. Doesn't sound very sustainable long term. I suspect the governmebts job numbers aren't that accurate as many may be just temporary.

Spin from the government.... surely not...?

After trawling through the Seek website, I can only assume they are maybe basing this number off the total number of job adds, even though there are multiple adds on Seek which are clearly referencing the same positions. The 10,000 jobs needing to be filled reference was purely and simply a reason for the govt to backtrack on their immigration 'solution' previously announced (another of the many knee-jerk announcements that have come from all political parties within the last month or so).

As already mentioned in previous posts, there is no quick fix to the homelessness issue, but it will not be resolved by being ignored by the government either - and make no mistake, the only body who are able to kick-off even the basic high level discussions that do need to be had are the government.

Also, I agree with your comment re. the imported workers being required to build the infrastructure that they are also placing additional demand on.

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#1828439 24-Jul-2017 14:18

MikeAqua:
The homeless people I see in both Wellington and Nelson appear to be suffering from mental health issues.

I suspect they would need wrap-around care, because even providing them free or subsidised housing will probably not enable them to function independently. I'm not sure which comes first - the mental health issues or the homelessness. But it's pretty bloody sad.

I'm seeing the people who are definitively homeless and there may be much larger group that are living in over crowded accommodation or couch-surfing or whatever. Some of them will have similar issues that prevent them from renting a property and some may just be short of cash.

It's a freaking mess. I don't see a solution.

It's a mistake to think the obvious homeless you see are 'the homeless'.

There are also many employed people sleeping in cars and various places and they are unlikely to tell you about it. Including with kids in the car.

Having said that there is no doubt in my mind that even those you speak of and see on the street with obvious mental health issues are on the street in part because of housing stress. There is a maximum some people can deal with and that's that. There's no need for it. It's just a mess.

Rikkitic

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#1828486 24-Jul-2017 15:18

It is maybe worth asking why a 'first world' country like New Zealand allows mentally ill people to live on the streets in the first place. Very many years ago I worked for a time in a halfway house set up specifically to help those released from mental institutions to ease back into society. Surely this country is capable of such a thing?

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#1828496 24-Jul-2017 15:27

Rikkitic:

It is maybe worth asking why a 'first world' country like New Zealand allows mentally ill people to live on the streets in the first place. Very many years ago I worked for a time in a halfway house set up specifically to help those released from mental institutions to ease back into society. Surely this country is capable of such a thing?

These facilities still exist. You can't keep people against their will unless they fall into the "danger to themselves or others" and even then it's tenuous.

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