What will Winston do???

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#1873873 27-Sep-2017 21:50

Batman:

BTW anyone knows what happened to Rikitic?

On another politics thread, I saw a thing going on. The other party was niggling quite bad, I expect she may have reacted. To be fair, the other party, beginning with "R" was niggling and pushing. If she got banned for a week so should the new user.

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#1873879 27-Sep-2017 22:00

tdgeek:

Batman:

BTW anyone knows what happened to Rikitic?

On another politics thread, I saw a thing going on. The other party was niggling quite bad, I expect she may have reacted. To be fair, the other party, beginning with "R" was niggling and pushing. If she got banned for a week so should the new user.

Ah the noob trap. Yup beware the newbies.

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#1873880 27-Sep-2017 22:03

tdgeek:

You answered your question. He's not an idiot.

The media are screaming for him. Despite the fact that he has made it extremely clear there will be no decision before 7 Oct. So this is a media circus not a Peters circus. Its all normal and expected. But every day, check the news, there will be Winston stories, all media not fact based. Filling up news columns, thats about it.

That would be an opinion for the eye of the beholder.

There have been many times where he was caught red handed and manages to somehow squirm out of trouble, out sight and out of mind.

Does that make him a bad person? Not necessarily, but it paints him as someone who is not incorruptible. But I guess most politicians probably have some dark secrets we are not supposed to know about.

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#1873895 27-Sep-2017 22:40

PhantomNVD:

Batman:

Well if you read this article, it is clear Winston is siding Labour.

and the only comment thats published under that article
Regardless of who Peters decides to put into government, I'm still pretty angry that this MMP system allows a loser to decide who governs our country. This isn't democracy.
which I heartily agree with!

It certainly seems odd that Winston decides who governs not us, I agree.

Just chatting to folk in the village whilst shopping and doing chores, it certainly doesn't seem a popular outcome around here.

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#1873936 28-Sep-2017 07:32

Batman:

tdgeek:

You answered your question. He's not an idiot.

The media are screaming for him. Despite the fact that he has made it extremely clear there will be no decision before 7 Oct. So this is a media circus not a Peters circus. Its all normal and expected. But every day, check the news, there will be Winston stories, all media not fact based. Filling up news columns, thats about it.

That would be an opinion for the eye of the beholder.

There have been many times where he was caught red handed and manages to somehow squirm out of trouble, out sight and out of mind.

Does that make him a bad person? Not necessarily, but it paints him as someone who is not incorruptible. But I guess most politicians probably have some dark secrets we are not supposed to know about.

You clearly dislike him, so same in reverse.

We have a hint today. JA will not have referendum on Maori seats. Thats a fact that wont change. Winston has said thats not a non negotiable for him, so the Maori seats are not an issue in negotiations. The other thing I have annecdotally noticed, is that media commentary revolves mainly around Labour and NZF, while eraly commentary was mainly that it will be a shock to go with Labour

While Davis will lead the talks, it will be with JA

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#1873948 28-Sep-2017 08:34

In 1996 most of the talk in the media was assuming he would side with Labour. He campaigned on a change the government mandate then as well. In the end he went with Jim Bolger's National. He was offered a massive amount of goodies for that as well. Deputy PM, a few cabinet posts for his people etc.

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#1873952 28-Sep-2017 08:44

Varkk:

In 1996 most of the talk in the media was assuming he would side with Labour. He campaigned on a change the government mandate then as well. In the end he went with Jim Bolger's National. He was offered a massive amount of goodies for that as well. Deputy PM, a few cabinet posts for his people etc.

It seems that he will get those goodies this time also, from both parties. Deputy PM is basically already decided.

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#1874396 28-Sep-2017 23:40

tdgeek:

Varkk:

In 1996 most of the talk in the media was assuming he would side with Labour. He campaigned on a change the government mandate then as well. In the end he went with Jim Bolger's National. He was offered a massive amount of goodies for that as well. Deputy PM, a few cabinet posts for his people etc.

It seems that he will get those goodies this time also, from both parties. Deputy PM is basically already decided.

Decided by who? Last time I checked Labour, NZF, National, and the greens haven't even sorted their negotiating teams yet, let alone contacted each other about starting their negotiations, which wont start until 07/10/2017 at the earliest.

What you hear from all the clowns in the media circus is rabid pontificating on what THEY want to happen, not what is actually happening. Winston was quite justified in his comments about them at his news conference IMHO.

We'll know after 12/10/2017 what the terms are, and not before then.

Though I wouldn't put it past national to be trying to have secret negotiations with the greens before those dates, to get around their Winston/NZF 'problem'.

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#1874455 29-Sep-2017 07:12

MaxLV:

tdgeek:

Varkk:

In 1996 most of the talk in the media was assuming he would side with Labour. He campaigned on a change the government mandate then as well. In the end he went with Jim Bolger's National. He was offered a massive amount of goodies for that as well. Deputy PM, a few cabinet posts for his people etc.

It seems that he will get those goodies this time also, from both parties. Deputy PM is basically already decided.

Decided by who? Last time I checked Labour, NZF, National, and the greens haven't even sorted their negotiating teams yet, let alone contacted each other about starting their negotiations, which wont start until 07/10/2017 at the earliest.

What you hear from all the clowns in the media circus is rabid pontificating on what THEY want to happen, not what is actually happening. Winston was quite justified in his comments about them at his news conference IMHO.

We'll know after 12/10/2017 what the terms are, and not before then.

Though I wouldn't put it past national to be trying to have secret negotiations with the greens before those dates, to get around their Winston/NZF 'problem'.

National and Labour have stated that their two deputies will step aside if required, so you can take that as a given that Deputy PM is available for Peters if he wants it, and off course he will

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#1874488 29-Sep-2017 08:31

tdgeek:

MaxLV:

tdgeek:

Varkk:

In 1996 most of the talk in the media was assuming he would side with Labour. He campaigned on a change the government mandate then as well. In the end he went with Jim Bolger's National. He was offered a massive amount of goodies for that as well. Deputy PM, a few cabinet posts for his people etc.

It seems that he will get those goodies this time also, from both parties. Deputy PM is basically already decided.

Decided by who? Last time I checked Labour, NZF, National, and the greens haven't even sorted their negotiating teams yet, let alone contacted each other about starting their negotiations, which wont start until 07/10/2017 at the earliest.

What you hear from all the clowns in the media circus is rabid pontificating on what THEY want to happen, not what is actually happening. Winston was quite justified in his comments about them at his news conference IMHO.

We'll know after 12/10/2017 what the terms are, and not before then.

Though I wouldn't put it past national to be trying to have secret negotiations with the greens before those dates, to get around their Winston/NZF 'problem'.

National and Labour have stated that their two deputies will step aside if required, so you can take that as a given that Deputy PM is available for Peters if he wants it, and off course he will

Yep - and Peters has clearly won that round, as if he'd come out with the appearance of demanding to be deputy PM, it's not a good look. Being courted for deputy PM by both parties on the other hand - well everybody loves Winston. For a while I thought he was being serious when he said he wasn't interested in the Deputy PM role.

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#1874500 29-Sep-2017 08:39

Fred99:
tdgeek:

MaxLV:

tdgeek:

Varkk:

In 1996 most of the talk in the media was assuming he would side with Labour. He campaigned on a change the government mandate then as well. In the end he went with Jim Bolger's National. He was offered a massive amount of goodies for that as well. Deputy PM, a few cabinet posts for his people etc.

It seems that he will get those goodies this time also, from both parties. Deputy PM is basically already decided.

Decided by who? Last time I checked Labour, NZF, National, and the greens haven't even sorted their negotiating teams yet, let alone contacted each other about starting their negotiations, which wont start until 07/10/2017 at the earliest.

What you hear from all the clowns in the media circus is rabid pontificating on what THEY want to happen, not what is actually happening. Winston was quite justified in his comments about them at his news conference IMHO.

We'll know after 12/10/2017 what the terms are, and not before then.

Though I wouldn't put it past national to be trying to have secret negotiations with the greens before those dates, to get around their Winston/NZF 'problem'.

National and Labour have stated that their two deputies will step aside if required, so you can take that as a given that Deputy PM is available for Peters if he wants it, and off course he will

Yep - and Peters has clearly won that round, as if he'd come out with the appearance of demanding to be deputy PM, it's not a good look. Being courted for deputy PM by both parties on the other hand - well everybody loves Winston. For a while I thought he was being serious when he said he wasn't interested in the Deputy PM role.

Ha. Fat chance he wasn't.

It's not a role I'd want, aside from the money. If your ego demands recognition, feeding it with second place in a position which no one will remember in 5 years hardly cuts the mustard..
I'd head to the Foreign Minister's chair myself. More free travel opportunities.
Winston would probably prefer a new position, Minister for Winston Peters, in the new Department of Winston Peters....

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#1874506 29-Sep-2017 08:47

Fred99:

tdgeek:

MaxLV:

tdgeek:

Varkk:

In 1996 most of the talk in the media was assuming he would side with Labour. He campaigned on a change the government mandate then as well. In the end he went with Jim Bolger's National. He was offered a massive amount of goodies for that as well. Deputy PM, a few cabinet posts for his people etc.

It seems that he will get those goodies this time also, from both parties. Deputy PM is basically already decided.

Decided by who? Last time I checked Labour, NZF, National, and the greens haven't even sorted their negotiating teams yet, let alone contacted each other about starting their negotiations, which wont start until 07/10/2017 at the earliest.

What you hear from all the clowns in the media circus is rabid pontificating on what THEY want to happen, not what is actually happening. Winston was quite justified in his comments about them at his news conference IMHO.

We'll know after 12/10/2017 what the terms are, and not before then.

Though I wouldn't put it past national to be trying to have secret negotiations with the greens before those dates, to get around their Winston/NZF 'problem'.

National and Labour have stated that their two deputies will step aside if required, so you can take that as a given that Deputy PM is available for Peters if he wants it, and off course he will

Yep - and Peters has clearly won that round, as if he'd come out with the appearance of demanding to be deputy PM, it's not a good look. Being courted for deputy PM by both parties on the other hand - well everybody loves Winston. For a while I thought he was being serious when he said he wasn't interested in the Deputy PM role.

7/10/2017 and 12/10/2017. Until then nothing has been decided, and everything's on the table. If he decides he wants to be deputy PM good, if not then that's good as well, but he wont decide or tell us until these two dates.

Why both national and labour are offering this 'bauble' is highly suspect, I guess they're hoping it'll keep him 'in line' if either of them become the government with his support.

tdgeek

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#1874508 29-Sep-2017 08:50

Geektastic:
Ha. Fat chance he wasn't.

It's not a role I'd want, aside from the money. If your ego demands recognition, feeding it with second place in a position which no one will remember in 5 years hardly cuts the mustard..
I'd head to the Foreign Minister's chair myself. More free travel opportunities.
Winston would probably prefer a new position, Minister for Winston Peters, in the new Department of Winston Peters....

You voted for National, so why bag Peters? You want him on board so that Bill is PM

Just got an alert while typing, Paula Bennett says National wants to talk to the Greens. Must be desperate to want to sell them out than get NZF seats.

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#1874510 29-Sep-2017 09:00

MaxLV:

Why both national and labour are offering this 'bauble' is highly suspect, I guess they're hoping it'll keep him 'in line' if either of them become the government with his support.

They both want him bad. So a nice carrot, although its neutral now as both offered it. That National wants to talk to the Greens is interesting. That tells Peters that National would prefer them to NZF, so he may sway Labour. Greens have already said they will work with NZF, he may return the compliment. Greens will get a far better outcome with Labour, so the odds seem to have moved left. I have already stated that NZF will have an easier time with Labour/Greens, and it seems to be heading that way. Note that National were first to offer Deputy PM, and now the Greens interest, while Labour is playing it cool, waiting for October, in line with what Peters has said. Bill has stated on election night and after that he wants a sooner than later outcome so he can form his Govt. While the early pundits fully expected a National/NZF coalition, I feel there is pressure on Bill

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#1874521 29-Sep-2017 09:29

tdgeek:

I feel there is pressure on Bill

There is immense pressure on Bill.

Consider this;

Bill needs to convince either Winston or James to join him.

Jacinda needs both Winston and James to join her.

...If Bill can't form a government from there, he doesn't deserve to be PM.

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