Dirty Politics: Nicky Hager's New Book

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#1111403 19-Aug-2014 16:47

networkn: I am interested to know, what do you believe is the appropriate way to handle this mess? You say lets hold our elected leaders to a higher standard, fine I'd like less of this type of BS in politics too. How do you propose we do this?

Kick Collins and Ede to the curb today would be a pretty good start. I'm still of the belief that Collins has something pretty major on Key as she has had more than enough "last" chances. If that came out then National would implode.

Put English in place as leader and let him stand up and say they have made mistakes and are moving forward to run a more honest campaign on the policies of today and tomorrow. At least he had the fortitude to stand up and say something isn't right.

It's never going to happen but it's nice to dream.

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#1111408 19-Aug-2014 16:51

BarTender:
networkn:
BarTender:
joker97: so is there any proof that the Party accused is actually behind the alleged dirty stuff, or just a select few (along with maybe an outsider) without the mandate of the Party?

I'm sure that not all the National party are dirty..

But when you have a senior staffer and a senior minister that has been over Police and Justice talking directly with Whale Oil the rot goes pretty deep.

If John Key didn't know he is asleep at the wheel. And going by today's non-admission on Radio NZ, it seems pretty clear to me he knew.

I am interested to know, what do you believe is the appropriate way to handle this mess? You say lets hold our elected leaders to a higher standard, fine I'd like less of this type of BS in politics too. How do you propose we do this?

Kick Collins and Ede to the curb today would be a pretty good start. I'm still of the belief that Collins has something pretty major on Key as she has had more than enough "last" chances. If that came out then National would implode.

Put English in place as leader and let him stand up and say they have made mistakes and are moving forward to run a more honest campaign on the policies of today and tomorrow. At least he had the fortitude to stand up and say something isn't right.

It's never going to happen but it's nice to dream.

I have no issue with Collins going, I don't think she is terrible, but she has made a number of mistakes, there are people equal to the task of replacing her. Not sure about Ede, but ok, but you are suggesting English replace Key? That I am unable to agree with.

So based on this, to be fair, the relevant people in Labour need to go as well right? Those who were responsible for said failure to secure the data etc? Seems only reasonable. They are criminally stupid at the very least. Also anyone in Labour who has committed similarly slimey
political actions? Then Cunliffe needs to front and say his party will conduct themselves in a better manner going forward?

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#1111409 19-Aug-2014 16:52

BarTender:

Kick Collins and Ede to the curb today would be a pretty good start. I'm still of the belief that Collins has something pretty major on Key as she has had more than enough "last" chances. If that came out then National would implode.

That would be ........ ironic. Ede is an employee. One of the complaints of the left is that the right has weaken the protection of workers.

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#1111412 19-Aug-2014 16:55

BarTender:

Put English in place as leader and let him stand up and say they have made mistakes and are moving forward to run a more honest campaign on the policies of today and tomorrow. At least he had the fortitude to stand up and say something isn't right.

It's never going to happen but it's nice to dream.

Umm yeah. Let's replace the most consistently popular (and successful) Prime Minister in recent history with the guy that delivered National's record lowest electoral result...

In what universe is that anything other than a Labour & Green Party fantasy?

code15

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#1111414 19-Aug-2014 16:55

networkn:
BarTender:
joker97: so is there any proof that the Party accused is actually behind the alleged dirty stuff, or just a select few (along with maybe an outsider) without the mandate of the Party?

I'm sure that not all the National party are dirty..

But when you have a senior staffer and a senior minister that has been over Police and Justice talking directly with Whale Oil the rot goes pretty deep.

If John Key didn't know he is asleep at the wheel. And going by today's non-admission on Radio NZ, it seems pretty clear to me he knew.

I am interested to know, what do you believe is the appropriate way to handle this mess? You say lets hold our elected leaders to a higher standard, fine I'd like less of this type of BS in politics too. How do you propose we do this?

Guess it comes down to the vote.

Mind you I'm pretty sure the aftermath of this book will stamp out a large amount of dirty politics for the next couple of years, regardless of who wins the election.

Can't see Judith leaking any more info to Cameron Slater for a while...

networkn

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#1111415 19-Aug-2014 16:58

6FIEND:
BarTender:

Put English in place as leader and let him stand up and say they have made mistakes and are moving forward to run a more honest campaign on the policies of today and tomorrow. At least he had the fortitude to stand up and say something isn't right.

It's never going to happen but it's nice to dream.

Umm yeah. Let's replace the most consistently popular (and successful) Prime Minister in recent history with the guy that delivered National's record lowest electoral result...

In what universe is that anything other than a Labour & Green Party fantasy?

Yah I would be inclined to agree with this. Key is twice or more the leader of English, and I like English.

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#1111424 19-Aug-2014 17:04

Glassboy:
BarTender:

Kick Collins and Ede to the curb today would be a pretty good start. I'm still of the belief that Collins has something pretty major on Key as she has had more than enough "last" chances. If that came out then National would implode.

That would be ........ ironic. Ede is an employee. One of the complaints of the left is that the right has weaken the protection of workers.

I would hope that he would have signed an employment contract with a code of business ethics. However considering how things have been going perhaps that his just a nonsense. I know with all my jobs I have had over the years there has been one.

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#1111428 19-Aug-2014 17:10

BarTender:

I would hope that he would have signed an employment contract with a code of business ethics. However considering how things have been going perhaps that his just a nonsense. I know with all my jobs I have had over the years there has been one.

Which would at most result in a warning.

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#1111449 19-Aug-2014 17:22

Glassboy:
BarTender:

I would hope that he would have signed an employment contract with a code of business ethics. However considering how things have been going perhaps that his just a nonsense. I know with all my jobs I have had over the years there has been one.

Which would at most result in a warning.

Really?? I've seen people fired from violating the COBE. Bring your employer into disrepute and your gone.

But lets try and stay on topic... And of you right wingers here actually read the book yet or still believing it's all lies and left wing propaganda?

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#1111455 19-Aug-2014 17:27

BarTender:

Really?? I've seen people fired from violating the COBE. Bring your employer into disrepute and your gone.

Let's be clear, you're suggesting he be fired for doing his job. That it's a douchy job is irrelevant.

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#1111456 19-Aug-2014 17:31

My own feelings about this is the whole thing has turned the election into a nonsense and the course of democracy has been perverted by one man of dubious credentials.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1111464 19-Aug-2014 17:38

code15:
networkn:
BarTender:
joker97: so is there any proof that the Party accused is actually behind the alleged dirty stuff, or just a select few (along with maybe an outsider) without the mandate of the Party?

I'm sure that not all the National party are dirty..

But when you have a senior staffer and a senior minister that has been over Police and Justice talking directly with Whale Oil the rot goes pretty deep.

If John Key didn't know he is asleep at the wheel. And going by today's non-admission on Radio NZ, it seems pretty clear to me he knew.

I am interested to know, what do you believe is the appropriate way to handle this mess? You say lets hold our elected leaders to a higher standard, fine I'd like less of this type of BS in politics too. How do you propose we do this?

Guess it comes down to the vote.

Mind you I'm pretty sure the aftermath of this book will stamp out a large amount of dirty politics for the next couple of years, regardless of who wins the election.

Can't see Judith leaking any more info to Cameron Slater for a while...

it wont stamp out dirty politics, it will make them a lot more careful on how they carry it out.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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#1111486 19-Aug-2014 18:21

KiwiNZ: My own feelings about this is the whole thing has turned the election into a nonsense and the course of democracy has been perverted by one man of dubious credentials.

You need to be more specific because 3 names immediately sprung to mind after reading your post :-/
None are politicians.

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#1111499 19-Aug-2014 18:41

Glassboy:
BarTender:

Really?? I've seen people fired from violating the COBE. Bring your employer into disrepute and your gone.

Let's be clear, you're suggesting he be fired for doing his job. That it's a douchy job is irrelevant.

So his job is to poke around the oppositions website and dig up dirt rather than reporting it to them about the issue.

I really hope you don't work in IT or have anything to do with security since anyone you disageed with would be buggered.

networkn

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#1111500 19-Aug-2014 18:42

BarTender:
Glassboy:
BarTender:

Kick Collins and Ede to the curb today would be a pretty good start. I'm still of the belief that Collins has something pretty major on Key as she has had more than enough "last" chances. If that came out then National would implode.

That would be ........ ironic. Ede is an employee. One of the complaints of the left is that the right has weaken the protection of workers.

I would hope that he would have signed an employment contract with a code of business ethics. However considering how things have been going perhaps that his just a nonsense. I know with all my jobs I have had over the years there has been one.

Just wondering if you have any experience with dismissing staff? You think just because a clause like this exists you can just fire someone? It simply isn't that simple. There are processes to follow, investigations to occur etc, which all take time, I can't see
anyone (you included) patiently waiting while that process was followed. You are being disengenius to suggest he has no employment contract or that they don't have a morality or similar clause, as given he is a govt employee and entire dept's dedicated to it, in this day
and age it would have occurred.

I once caught a staff member with equipment in his car he had no reason to have in his car, it was essentially theft, but legally unless I had a VIDEO of him doing it, with audio amounting to an admission of guilt WHILE HE DID IT, it wasn't an option to sack him outright.

Thankfully when I started the process, he up and quit and spared us both the hassle. My employment lawyer told me outright at the outset, I would likely need to financially incentivise him to leave. That was a MUCH more clear cut case with far less complications and implications.

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