Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Forums › Politics › Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Awrrr
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#2002320 25-Apr-2018 14:41

'New Zealand's child poverty, inadequate housing, incarceration and violence has "shocked" a United Nations committee reviewing the country's human rights record.

Members of a committee overseeing the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) were last month incredulous at some of New Zealand's worst statistics, chief human rights commissioner David Rutherford said.'

This is just one of the reasons why I cannot see another National-led government as a viable alternative to the current one. However bad this government may or may not turn out to be, it is not the one that spent the last nine years allowing things to reach this state.

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GV27

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#2002345 25-Apr-2018 15:28

Rikkitic:

This is just one of the reasons why I cannot see another National-led government as a viable alternative to the current one. However bad this government may or may not turn out to be, it is not the one that spent the last nine years allowing things to reach this state.

Then you better start counting the Clark years against Labour, because the Key/English Govts were a continuation of the same approach that Labour took. None of this crap magically started the day National won the 2008 election, and in many cases it was worse than it is now.

BTW, the list of nations on the Commitee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights seems pretty curious. Jordan, Egypt and China are not exactly renowned for their expertise on Human Rights. I'm not sure we should be taking their advice as sacorsanct, even if it does back-up your world-view.

Rikkitic

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#2002376 25-Apr-2018 15:44

Whether National started it or not, they had plenty of time to fix it and didn't. My impression is that they made it worse. I don't think it really matters who is doing the finger pointing. No-one is disputing the accusations. At least this government is paying lip service to doing things better. That is already an improvement.

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GV27

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#2002380 25-Apr-2018 15:49

Rikkitic:

Whether National started it or not, they had plenty of time to fix it and didn't. My impression is that they made it worse. I don't think it really matters who is doing the finger pointing. No-one is disputing the accusations. At least this government is paying lip service to doing things better. That is already an improvement.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/103249836/middlemore-hospital-what-really-went-down-between-health-minister-and-counties-manukau-dhb

Yea this is definitely a change for the better. Or a change at all? It's not really. It's the same BAU but people are OK with it because it has red and green racing stripes now, which makes it look like it's going faster.

Rikkitic

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#2002385 25-Apr-2018 15:58

One disgruntled employee says nothing. There are always stories like this on both sides. What does it prove?

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GV27

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#2002425 25-Apr-2018 16:42

Rikkitic:

One disgruntled employee says nothing. There are always stories like this on both sides. What does it prove?

That you're willing to cut Laboour more slack for ministerial incompetence than you are for National for...anything really? It's funny how the media pushed and pushed this story when it looked like it was National underfunding the health sector (including a separate thread on Geekzone for when Coleman couldn't answer any questions on it) and yet now that it's been proven to be 1) not actually National underfunding anything at all and 2) a case of a Labour minister not reading his briefing materials, the story has gone exceeding quiet. Funny that.

I can appreciate people have their own biases when it comes to who they would prefer to govern, that's their personal politics. But you can't point finger at National for something and explain away Labour literally doing the same thing they've spent nine years accusing everyone else of doing. At some point you're just being willfully naive.

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Rikkitic

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#2002445 25-Apr-2018 17:35

GV27:

That you're willing to cut Laboour more slack for ministerial incompetence than you are for National for...anything really?

No I am not. But the right wing keeps carping at all the failings of Labour when the new government has barely got underway with the constant implication that it would have all somehow been so much better if only there had been another National government except it wouldn't be because it wasn't when there was a National government. Instead of constantly going on and on about every little thing this government is getting wrong how about some support and encouragement for the things it might get right? This government says it largely accepts the UN criticisms about New Zealand's human rights failings. That is a great first step. Maybe if there was less backbiting and undermining it might actually be able to do something to redress those shortcomings. This is the government you have. Quit wishing for something else and get behind it.

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GV27

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#2002446 25-Apr-2018 17:46

Rikkitic:

No I am not. But the right wing keeps carping at all the failings of Labour when the new government has barely got underway with the constant implication that it would have all somehow been so much better if only there had been another National government except it wouldn't be because it wasn't when there was a National government. Instead of constantly going on and on about every little thing this government is getting wrong how about some support and encouragement for the things it might get right? This government says it largely accepts the UN criticisms about New Zealand's human rights failings. That is a great first step. Maybe if there was less backbiting and undermining it might actually be able to do something to redress those shortcomings. This is the government you have. Quit wishing for something else and get behind it.

They have had nine years to come up with a plan. They took Kiwibuild to two elections and immediately reneged on it once they had to deliver.

Why is 'holding them to account for the things they get wrong' so bad? Maybe they should be competent enough to execute without making those mistakes? People didn't seem to grant National the same leeway. In fact, the current administration is doing all they can to pin as much stuff on them as possible.

This Labour government has had a monetary cost to me to underwrite things like student loans for other people that I'm still expected to pay back. I'm allowed to not be happy about it. Coz I gotta be honest, the whole "For the greater good and all criticism of the state is bad" is a bit Stalinesque for my liking.

rjt123

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#2002447 25-Apr-2018 17:47

Rikkitic:
Maybe if there was less backbiting and undermining it might actually be able to do something to redress those shortcomings. This is the government you have. Quit wishing for something else and get behind it.

All very well to get behind it... But tbh, I'd rather the government literally did nothing. Of they do nothing: A) it will avoid further tradgedies like their oil/gas policy shambles B) they'll be less likely to be elected in again. Merely telling people to support them doesn't help, you'll have to give them a tangible, relevant persuasive reason. Personally I'm hoping for a snap election before the end of the year... It's a long shot but the sooner this government goes the better.

Sorry but I don't agree with your opinion

rjt123

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#2002448 25-Apr-2018 17:50

Rikkitic: At least this government is paying lip service to doing things better. That is already an improvement.

Lol. Some practical examples of where lip service accomplishes anything worthwhile would be useful.

There's an old saying "a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it is written on" - talking the talk without the associated 'walking the walk' is more than useless.

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#2002452 25-Apr-2018 18:00

Predictable responses.

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Pumpedd

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#2002455 25-Apr-2018 18:24

Rikkitic:

Predictable responses.

Predictable response!!

Geektastic

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#2002488 25-Apr-2018 19:49

Rikkitic:
'New Zealand's child poverty, inadequate housing, incarceration and violence has "shocked" a United Nations committee reviewing the country's human rights record.

Members of a committee overseeing the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR) were last month incredulous at some of New Zealand's worst statistics, chief human rights commissioner David Rutherford said.'

This is just one of the reasons why I cannot see another National-led government as a viable alternative to the current one. However bad this government may or may not turn out to be, it is not the one that spent the last nine years allowing things to reach this state.

You always assume the government is responsible for fixing everything.

What happened to personal responsibility in NZ?

Rikkitic

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#2002498 25-Apr-2018 20:18

You yourself have said more than once that the government should be an enabler, if I recall correctly. Ours clearly has not been.

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Geektastic

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#2002539 25-Apr-2018 21:45

Rikkitic:
You yourself have said more than once that the government should be an enabler, if I recall correctly. Ours clearly has not been.

It can and it has.

It isn't responsible for example for people having children they can't afford to feed or not paying attention at school and making the most of the educational opportunities available to ensure they earn good salaries.

There is no shortage of opportunities in NZ to do well. It requires an attitude shift and I don't really see quite how that can be achieved by the government alone.

Enabling is great, however you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

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