Our new coalition government.

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Networkn
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#2100116 2-Oct-2018 14:56

MikeB4:

Here is an idea, instead of building new power stations to meet the demand for EV energy the Government looks to providing homes with the means to produce their own energy. It would be interesting to compare the cost of a new Dam, Wind Farm, Geothermal station with the cost of grants to fund Solar power in homes.

Hmm, I am sure someone smart actually made mention of this a few responses back :)

Rikkitic

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#2100121 2-Oct-2018 15:01

Has the world given up on other technologies? What about fuel cells and hydrogen cars? What about external combustion (Stirling) engines that can use a range of renewable power sources? What about huge solar and wind plants generating electricity to produce hydrogen fuel from seawater? With hydrogen as a buffer, it doesn't matter if the generation is inconsistent.

I am not an engineer, or even a particularly well-informed lay person, but my understanding is that hydrogen already works in existing ICE vehicles with some minor tweaking, but it contains less energy per volume than petrol so the range is more limited. Are these not things that could be worked around? Would a massive investment programme in such things not come up with better answers than currently exist? Why put all our eggs in the EV basket?

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networkn

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#2100123 2-Oct-2018 15:04

Rikkitic:

I am not an engineer, or even a particularly well-informed lay person, but my understanding is that hydrogen already works in existing ICE vehicles with some minor tweaking, but it contains less energy per volume than petrol so the range is more limited. Are these not things that could be worked around? Would a massive investment programme in such things not come up with better answers than currently exist? Why put all our eggs in the EV basket?

Despite assurances that this isn't a problem, I just find it hard to believe that putting everything into lithium isn't going to end up with the same problem in 50 years or so. Either supply, or someone is going to find a critical issue or limitation with lithium that we can't overcome.

MikeB4

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#2100145 2-Oct-2018 15:34

Hydrogen Fuel Cell is not without its own set of hurdles. As for converting ICE to run on alternatives I was working in teh industry during teh flirtation with CNG and LPG selling both the conversion setc and filling station equipement and I always felt it was a waste of time and a almost a con. The 70s and 80s oil shocks made it easy to sell. I never felt comfortable doing it and left to join a newspaper.

networkn

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#2100147 2-Oct-2018 15:39

MikeB4:

Hydrogen Fuel Cell is not without its own set of hurdles. As for converting ICE to run on alternatives I was working in teh industry during teh flirtation with CNG and LPG selling both the conversion setc and filling station equipement and I always felt it was a waste of time and a almost a con. The 70s and 80s oil shocks made it easy to sell. I never felt comfortable doing it and left to join a newspaper.

One presumes the technology may well have improved a little since then. Not saying it's viable now, just that the knowledge you are working on is reasonably long ago.

Rikkitic

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#2100151 2-Oct-2018 15:45

And the technology doesn't stand still. And if the world or any government committed to an all-out Apollo-style effort, amazing things would result. It is a matter of will and money, nothing else.

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MikeB4

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#2100154 2-Oct-2018 15:48

Rikkitic:

And the technology doesn't stand still. And if the world or any government committed to an all-out Apollo-style effort, amazing things would result. It is a matter of will and money, nothing else.

Unfortunately the Oil cartel has a lot of clout.

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networkn

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#2100155 2-Oct-2018 15:51

Rikkitic:

And the technology doesn't stand still. And if the world or any government committed to an all-out Apollo-style effort, amazing things would result. It is a matter of will and money, nothing else.

You forgot physics and supply.

How much time and energy is spent on solving cancer yet it's still one of the worlds biggest killers. The common head cold etc.

Not every problem has a perfect solution.

If you want to stop human affected climate change, you could do the universe a favour and end the parasitic human race.

Rikkitic

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#2100156 2-Oct-2018 15:52

MikeB4:

Hydrogen Fuel Cell is not without its own set of hurdles. As for converting ICE to run on alternatives I was working in teh industry during teh flirtation with CNG and LPG selling both the conversion setc and filling station equipement and I always felt it was a waste of time and a almost a con. The 70s and 80s oil shocks made it easy to sell. I never felt comfortable doing it and left to join a newspaper.

I did my campervan adventure around Australia in a furnished Toyota high-ace. It also had LPG. Switching between both fuels was a breeze and it gave us a range of about 800 km between fill-ups. This saved us from a potentially ugly situation with an unpleasant Queensland redneck who started following us. Eventually he ran out of fuel and had to stop. We simply carried on to the next state. I have always wanted LPG since then.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Rikkitic

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#2100160 2-Oct-2018 15:56

networkn:

You forgot physics and supply.

How much time and energy is spent on solving cancer yet it's still one of the worlds biggest killers. The common head cold etc.

Not every problem has a perfect solution.

If you want to stop human affected climate change, you could do the universe a favour and end the parasitic human race.

The Nobel Prize for Medicine was just awarded for a highly successful breakthrough treatment of the most aggressive cancers based on immunotherapy. That can hardly be called a lack of progress.

Your last statement is correct and I'm inclined to agree with it, but I find it odd coming from someone who takes such delight in the antics of his children.

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MikeB4

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#2100163 2-Oct-2018 15:57

Governments and the community need to look at multiple alternatives like sustainable, flexible and accessable public transport. Making our cities friendly for alternatives like E-Bikes E-scooters and feet. Moving employement out of cities centres into the dormatory suburbs etc.

MikeB4

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#2100167 2-Oct-2018 15:59

Rikkitic:

MikeB4:

Hydrogen Fuel Cell is not without its own set of hurdles. As for converting ICE to run on alternatives I was working in teh industry during teh flirtation with CNG and LPG selling both the conversion setc and filling station equipement and I always felt it was a waste of time and a almost a con. The 70s and 80s oil shocks made it easy to sell. I never felt comfortable doing it and left to join a newspaper.

I did my campervan adventure around Australia in a furnished Toyota high-ace. It also had LPG. Switching between both fuels was a breeze and it gave us a range of about 800 km between fill-ups. This saved us from a potentially ugly situation with an unpleasant Queensland redneck who started following us. Eventually he ran out of fuel and had to stop. We simply carried on to the next state. I have always wanted LPG since then.

LPG was sorta OK but CNG was frankly a rip of.

networkn

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#2100183 2-Oct-2018 16:10

Rikkitic:

networkn:

You forgot physics and supply.

How much time and energy is spent on solving cancer yet it's still one of the worlds biggest killers. The common head cold etc.

Not every problem has a perfect solution.

If you want to stop human affected climate change, you could do the universe a favour and end the parasitic human race.

The Nobel Prize for Medicine was just awarded for a highly successful breakthrough treatment of the most aggressive cancers based on immunotherapy. That can hardly be called a lack of progress.

Your last statement is correct and I'm inclined to agree with it, but I find it odd coming from someone who takes such delight in the antics of his children.

Re my comments and my kids, the two aren't mutually exclusive. I can think we do more harm than good as a species and still love my kids.

Disagree about the lack of progress, that study is promising, but it's an EXCEPTIONALLY small part of cancer in the grand scheme of things. How many trillions and trillions of dollars and thousands of years worth of human research time has got us to what most scientists believe is still very early stages.

To some degree, combating cancer is anti green. People need to die. If they live longer they have a far greater impact on the planet etc. Seems extreme, I know, but it's still factual.

MikeB4

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#2100187 2-Oct-2018 16:16

I had a Grandmother, a sister and two Aunties die of cancer we do not need people to die of cancer, that is obscene.

MikeAqua

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#2100197 2-Oct-2018 16:35

networkn:

Despite assurances that this isn't a problem, I just find it hard to believe that putting everything into lithium isn't going to end up with the same problem in 50 years or so. Either supply, or someone is going to find a critical issue or limitation with lithium that we can't overcome.

Lithium is very common in compounds, but not as an element ... Rule of thumb - lighter elements are more common, and lithium is 3rd lightest.

The problem is the specific enthalpy the theoretical maximum energy released by the battery reaction. There is a cap to the energy that can be released by a kg of reagent - from which losses like heat are deducted. Beyond that - make the rest of the car lighter.

Mike

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