They lost the war on drugs

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#1546531 4-May-2016 11:30

Rikkitic:

I'm not sure what the point of the above post is. None of the statements quoted advocates the legalisation of hard drugs, which I assume from the bolded text is the issue being disputed.

Im not interpreting plain english for you, nor copying the obvious comments that prompted me to paste a small sample and why.

You make this thread so tiring, unlike others who have been polite and informative, and actually discussed the issues.

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Rikkitic

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#1546541 4-May-2016 11:42

Here is a link for those who have difficulty understanding the distinction. It also explains why decriminalisation should be a step towards 'legalisation'. I put it in quotes because no-one wants, or advocates, a convenience store approach to the distribution of truly dangerous substances. They probably need to be legalised in the sense of taking them out of the criminal sphere, but also carefully controlled, in the sense of prescription drugs. Something like this kind of legalisation I would support if the evidence backed it up.

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MikeAqua

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#1546713 4-May-2016 16:08

I say legalise the whole lot and provide addiction support (not all users become addicts). Regulate and tax.

Illegality is the incentive for drug producers to prefer meth which is easy to produce and has high $/g

Provide choice and people will generally opt for safer products. A small hardcore will still opt for high risk drugs, but fewer than now.

Harm minimisation is the best possible outcome.

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#1546897 4-May-2016 22:36

I was talking to a man from the north recently. We were talking about 'P'. He told me.that when the police elimination of marijuana crop is particularly successful, this is the time the gangsters show up with 'P' for sale and there will be takers. My personal opinion is from a harm minimisation point of view it would be better to allow those users to grow their own marijuana.

riahon

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#1546934 5-May-2016 01:53

TL;DR - drugs are bad and those that think otherwise have taken too many drugs.

Elpie

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#1546939 5-May-2016 06:28

riahon:

TL;DR - drugs are bad and those that think otherwise have taken too many drugs.

Drugs:

A medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.

It's ridiculous to keep using this word as a blanket term for pharmaceuticals you have a bias against. Most of us take drugs on a semi-frequent basis, eg. aspirin, paracetamol. If I develop cancer I sure as heck want drugs to fight it.

As for drugs that are currently illegal - let's not forget that some of them were in common, medicinal use for centuries. Cannabis was in most modern medicines until not so long ago. It was (and still is) an effective medicinal drug. Opium also had important legitimate uses. The reasons for making some of these drugs illegal had nothing to do with health effects and everything to do with xenophobia and politics. For countries that are looking at legalising (not just decriminalising) some of these now-illegal drugs, the lack of evidence of harm seems to be an oft-quoted factor. Anecdotal evidence is everywhere, hard evidence that has reproducible results is not.

Everything can be dangerous in excess, even drinking water.

I'm not pro-marijuana. I desperately wanted pharmaceutical-grade marijuana to be available when my mother was dying of cancer. Her doctor said it would ease her tremendously but we were unable to get it. That hurt. I'm now in a place where anyone can get marijuana, quasi-legally, cheaply and very easily. Yet, the only harm that's evident is the waste of police resources when they have to act on complaints. Then the courts have to waste time too, and there's better things for the justice system to be spending time and resources on. IMO. YMMV.

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MikeAqua

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#1547197 5-May-2016 13:51

I don't think illegal drugs are 'good'. I believe on balance they are neutral to harmful in their effects. But they are present in our society.

We have proven, by via a long and expensive game of whack-a-mole that we can't eradicate them.

So the rationale question becomes how do you minimise harm caused by the inevitable presence of drugs.

Mike

Rikkitic

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#1547200 5-May-2016 13:59

Agree with above. The issue isn't whether drugs are good or bad. The issue is whether current policy in regard to drugs is good or bad. The proposition being discussed here is if criminalisation of and incarceration for drug use does more harm than good, and if another approach might do more good than harm.

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BurningBeard

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#1547204 5-May-2016 14:19

I've got a mate who just got done for growing weed.

The cop was almost apologetic about it, talking to him about how she's constantly dealing with booze related incidents but never one that's been caused by mary jane.

Needless to say, I probably won't be catching up with him in the next couple of years.

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#1548236 8-May-2016 11:05

A fairly well-balanced report on the Nation on different potential mechanisms for legalising/decriminalising marijuana, and the possible consequences of these. Not really advocating one or the other, just taking a look at how it could work out. It seems that a commercial model is being adopted in the States, and that this may not necessarily be a good thing. I have to say I agree with that. Commercialisation means promotion and the pursuit of profit which just invites abuse and I don't think that is what it should be about. You just end up with a situation similar to the current problems with alcohol and fast food. I am in favour of at least some 'soft' drugs being decriminalised and ultimately legalised, but the focus should be freedom of choice, not how to make money from it. The report on The Nation is worth seeing if anyone is interested.

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#1596884 22-Jul-2016 14:46

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11678911

Good reason to fight this garbage every step of the way!

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DarthKermit

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#1596891 22-Jul-2016 14:58

If Trumpy gets in as prezi, I'm going to have no choice but to take drugs.

BlueShift

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#1596930 22-Jul-2016 15:32

PhantomNVD: http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11678911

Good reason to fight this garbage every step of the way!

Of course if her addiction was treated as a health issue, and she could get cheap prescription methadone instead of pimping out her baby to a pervert for smack, that might just get a better outcome than the status quo.

networkn

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#1596931 22-Jul-2016 15:37

BurningBeard:

I've got a mate who just got done for growing weed.

The cop was almost apologetic about it, talking to him about how she's constantly dealing with booze related incidents but never one that's been caused by mary jane.

Needless to say, I probably won't be catching up with him in the next couple of years.

Well, the law is currently that it's ILLEGAL to grow weed, so he will spend time behind bars as is the law.

I know he's your friend, but it's hard to feel sorry for someone who flouts the law.

networkn

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#1596932 22-Jul-2016 15:37

DarthKermit:

If Trumpy gets in as prezi, I'm going to have no choice but to take drugs.

Just ask him for some of whatever he is clearly taking.

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