Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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#1905012 21-Nov-2017 09:56

networkn:

The mine shaft could collapse. There are chemicals and gases in the mine which would need to be vented out. There was a guy on National Radio today talking about a cost of about $7M (So imagine twice that) to reinstate what is required to even get started. He himself said it's complex and has risk. He is an advocate for re-entry (presumably financially so).

It's impossible to imagine this happening for under $10M which is a gross mis-use of public funds to recover corpses. On top of that, imagine at least a million for a memorial.

Fair enough. I keep thinking of memorial costs. Wasnt it a private company? The public paying for a memorial for a private compay's failing?

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#1905014 21-Nov-2017 09:58

There will also be ongoing memorial costs to consider as well, roads and bridges will need to be maintained. I believe it should be put into the nearest town or where the majority of people who died came from.

I believe it was a subsidiary of Solid Energy, owned at the time partially by the Government.

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#1905016 21-Nov-2017 10:00

Some would argue (I'm not saying I'm one of them) that the country owes a moral debt to the families because the men died as a result of State negligence. If it had just been an act of God type of disaster, your argument would be correct. But because there was not adequate enforcement of safety inspection procedures, the authorities were negligent and that is why they owe it to the families to spend that money even if it is only to retrieve corpses. It is not just about the money.

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#1905017 21-Nov-2017 10:00

networkn:

The mine shaft could collapse. There are chemicals and gases in the mine which would need to be vented out. There was a guy on National Radio today talking about a cost of about $7M (So imagine twice that) to reinstate what is required to even get started. He himself said it's complex and has risk. He is an advocate for re-entry (presumably financially so).

It's impossible to imagine this happening for under $10M which is a gross mis-use of public funds to recover corpses. On top of that, imagine at least a million for a memorial.

The Government had budgeted $7.6 million a year for three years, up to $23m, for the agency and re-entry.

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#1905023 21-Nov-2017 10:05

Wow, and people complained about the cost of a Flag Referendum! They will be unable to control themselves now! There will be rioting.

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#1905025 21-Nov-2017 10:08

Rikkitic:

Some would argue (I'm not saying I'm one of them) that the country owes a moral debt to the families because the men died as a result of State negligence. If it had just been an act of God type of disaster, your argument would be correct. But because there was not adequate enforcement of safety inspection procedures, the authorities were negligent and that is why they owe it to the families to spend that money even if it is only to retrieve corpses. It is not just about the money.

I have to disagree. At this point spending at least $21M over the next 3 years, plus whatever is spent in investigations and discussions and payments and everything else, so let's be generous and cap it at $50M to recover what some experts are saying is likely to be mostly ash now, is folly.

I'd like to know if anyone here condones 50M for recovering bodies instead of 50M into Healthcare, or lifeline, or plunket or similar community organizations, would be well spent?

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#1905040 21-Nov-2017 10:20

networkn:

Wow, and people complained about the cost of a Flag Referendum! They will be unable to control themselves now! There will be rioting.

23M for bodies and families and 26M for a flag, as I see it, its 1 all for National and Labour

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#1905046 21-Nov-2017 10:36

tdgeek:

networkn:

Wow, and people complained about the cost of a Flag Referendum! They will be unable to control themselves now! There will be rioting.

23M for bodies and families and 26M for a flag, as I see it, its 1 all for National and Labour

Everyone got a say re the flag, either way, everyone got potential benefit. The recovery, only the families will benefit. I wonder if they would each have rather got $1M in compensation?

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#1905047 21-Nov-2017 10:38

networkn:

tdgeek:

networkn:

Wow, and people complained about the cost of a Flag Referendum! They will be unable to control themselves now! There will be rioting.

23M for bodies and families and 26M for a flag, as I see it, its 1 all for National and Labour

Everyone got a say re the flag, either way, everyone got potential benefit. The recovery, only the families will benefit. I wonder if they would each have rather got $1M in compensation?

Whose fault was it? I thought it was the company's fault, and the CEO was in the gun?

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#1905048 21-Nov-2017 10:40

tdgeek:

networkn:

tdgeek:

networkn:

Wow, and people complained about the cost of a Flag Referendum! They will be unable to control themselves now! There will be rioting.

23M for bodies and families and 26M for a flag, as I see it, its 1 all for National and Labour

Everyone got a say re the flag, either way, everyone got potential benefit. The recovery, only the families will benefit. I wonder if they would each have rather got $1M in compensation?

Whose fault was it? I thought it was the company's fault, and the CEO was in the gun?

Went to trial he was found not guilty if I recall correctly. Families were obviously not happy, they think evidence to convict him was in the mine, however, you can't be tried for the same crime twice.

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#1905137 21-Nov-2017 10:48

I prefer to call the Mine Event a tragedy. It has been to court and no one really won. We tend to want to blame someone for everything...

The bodies cannot be recovered, they are skeletons now. It was said several times, that even if they could reenter the mine they wouldnt be able to get beyond the drift where it is estimated most of the miners died. To spend millions and millions more to perhaps recover a few of the dead who died this side of the drift is irresponsible.

The PM has now changed tact and is getting NZ ready for safety to be used again as a reason not to humanly reenter.

Labour and NZ First have used this sad event for political gain and now it will cost us all for probably no gain.

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#1905139 21-Nov-2017 10:59

Pumpedd:

I prefer to call the Mine Event a tragedy. It has been to court and no one really won. We tend to want to blame someone for everything...

The bodies cannot be recovered, they are skeletons now. It was said several times, that even if they could reenter the mine they wouldnt be able to get beyond the drift where it is estimated most of the miners died. To spend millions and millions more to perhaps recover a few of the dead who died this side of the drift is irresponsible.

The PM has now changed tact and is getting NZ ready for safety to be used again as a reason not to humanly reenter.

Labour and NZ First have used this sad event for political gain and now it will cost us all for probably no gain.

Id suggest election vote gain not political gain. They may well end up with a political backlash if money gets spend and it doesnt happen, or it becomes an ongoing saga for years, when an issue stops entry, then there is debate and money to overcome that, it may become a festering sore. And all the while, its a very unfortunate 7 YO tragedy. Things like this happen, but this wont go away. Far too much publicity still for what it was and how long ago it was. Its almost unhealthy for the coasters, living the disaster in what is probably a daily basis for some. Imagine if us ChCh people were still living the talk about EQ lifestyle every day. Not healthy

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#1905436 21-Nov-2017 19:36

tdgeek:

networkn:

The mine shaft could collapse. There are chemicals and gases in the mine which would need to be vented out. There was a guy on National Radio today talking about a cost of about $7M (So imagine twice that) to reinstate what is required to even get started. He himself said it's complex and has risk. He is an advocate for re-entry (presumably financially so).

It's impossible to imagine this happening for under $10M which is a gross mis-use of public funds to recover corpses. On top of that, imagine at least a million for a memorial.

Fair enough. I keep thinking of memorial costs. Wasnt it a private company? The public paying for a memorial for a private compay's failing?

Well then, what's your take on the body recovery costs (in today's $$$$) for the Mt Erubus body recovery? What about the Wahine body recovery costs?
And no these weren't acts of god disasters, they were caused by failings of the companies concerned.

Or a more up to date disaster, the cost of recovering the 185 bodies from the Christchurch earthquake... It was a natural event, but again, most/all of the deaths were caused by failings of companies/owners/designers of buildings that collapsed.

Were all those $$$$ wasted as well?

It's just all $$$$ to the neo-liberals isn't it...

This is one reason why National lost the election. They didn't want to spend the money, they didn't care about the human side of this disaster, but were happy to spend $26 million, on a populist prime ministers pet legacy flag referendum.

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#1905445 21-Nov-2017 20:00

MaxLV:

tdgeek:

networkn:

The mine shaft could collapse. There are chemicals and gases in the mine which would need to be vented out. There was a guy on National Radio today talking about a cost of about $7M (So imagine twice that) to reinstate what is required to even get started. He himself said it's complex and has risk. He is an advocate for re-entry (presumably financially so).

It's impossible to imagine this happening for under $10M which is a gross mis-use of public funds to recover corpses. On top of that, imagine at least a million for a memorial.

Fair enough. I keep thinking of memorial costs. Wasnt it a private company? The public paying for a memorial for a private compay's failing?

Well then, what's your take on the body recovery costs (in today's $$$$) for the Mt Erubus body recovery? What about the Wahine body recovery costs?
And no these weren't acts of god disasters, they were caused by failings of the companies concerned.

Or a more up to date disaster, the cost of recovering the 185 bodies from the Christchurch earthquake... It was a natural event, but again, most/all of the deaths were caused by failings of companies/owners/designers of buildings that collapsed.

Were all those $$$$ wasted as well?

It's just all $$$$ to the neo-liberals isn't it...

This is one reason why National lost the election. They didn't want to spend the money, they didn't care about the human side of this disaster, but were happy to spend $26 million, on a populist prime ministers pet legacy flag referendum.

Christchurch wasn't the same - the bodies were in places where buildings needed removing and replacing. They could not be left.

The point is, I think, that there needs to be a balance of expense, safety and so on. Spending tens of millions to (possibly) recover dead bodies from a pretty dangerous place hardly seems to meet any criteria I can think of for meeting that balance. We do not generally, for example, seek to recover dead climbers lost on Everest because to do so would place others in danger as well as costing a great deal of money. Neither do we recover war dead from sunken ships, subs and so on as a general rule.

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#1905446 21-Nov-2017 20:01

tdgeek:

Pumpedd:

I prefer to call the Mine Event a tragedy. It has been to court and no one really won. We tend to want to blame someone for everything...

The bodies cannot be recovered, they are skeletons now. It was said several times, that even if they could reenter the mine they wouldnt be able to get beyond the drift where it is estimated most of the miners died. To spend millions and millions more to perhaps recover a few of the dead who died this side of the drift is irresponsible.

The PM has now changed tact and is getting NZ ready for safety to be used again as a reason not to humanly reenter.

Labour and NZ First have used this sad event for political gain and now it will cost us all for probably no gain.

Id suggest election vote gain not political gain. They may well end up with a political backlash if money gets spend and it doesnt happen, or it becomes an ongoing saga for years, when an issue stops entry, then there is debate and money to overcome that, it may become a festering sore. And all the while, its a very unfortunate 7 YO tragedy. Things like this happen, but this wont go away. Far too much publicity still for what it was and how long ago it was. Its almost unhealthy for the coasters, living the disaster in what is probably a daily basis for some. Imagine if us ChCh people were still living the talk about EQ lifestyle every day. Not healthy

Never mind what it will become if they go in and 10 more people lose their lives doing it...!

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