Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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#1915856 9-Dec-2017 23:30

tdgeek:

networkn:

tdgeek:

Do you expect the 3 year term to be condensed into a month? They do have much work to do, a photo shoot is a red herring. How long was it? An hour, two hours or 8 months? Its a bit silly IMHO

No-one expects that, You do, you have already said that however, Labour have been in opposition 9 years. Labour were exceptionally critical of National and have said "everythings a mess". People are looking for the leadership and indications of change that was promised, and it's a good look to be nose down and tail up for at least the first 6 months IMO. I agree. Its been a month, she's been away, she had an 2 hour photo shoot. That isn't happening for my money. Same here, you say the first 6 months but you are criticising the first month not matching the first 6 months.Those were points made by pro Labour supporters I met this past weekend. To give a good impression she should look like she is working *really* hard (fail) Your opinion, get back in 6 months , and deliver on the leadership (fail by making poor staff/portfolio choices from day 1).

You might be prepared to wait 3 years before making any assessment on how they are doing, didnt I say 18 months? (I cant backspace from here) but I was always taught to start, how you intend to continue. Fair, but you talk 6 months, its been one month, that equates to a measurement of 3 years? Not withstanding taking over new reins, getting the eal detail from the ministries? Such as the today's DHB detail of debt that was known but not disclosed. 1. Get the data. 2. Plan 3. Implement

Perception is important after you promise the world, if I was JA I would wait till I had something to crow about in terms of achievements before appearing on a magazine cover. Surely she could have waited 6 months, 12?

Magazine cover is a red herring, its nothing. Last week she was part of some list of important females, I dont know the detail as I didnt read it, unimportant.

Magazine cover shoot is not a red herring. The PM can do whatever she likes and when, all i am saying is that in my opinion it is very bad timing and not appropriate. Besides the issues others have said that she should be focusing on there is also a national town water crisis and probably a significant drought on the horizon due to weather issues.

So yes, its about perception, and she has failed in my opinion.

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#1915862 10-Dec-2017 00:22

tdgeek:

networkn:

tdgeek:

Reading between the lines, there is a need to bash her and them, thats ok, its a political thread, thats all that happens. This thread and the Trump thread shows that. But, if we are down to bashing a boring, short, photo shoot, that tells me that the ideas are running out. And, that given they are just in power, its quite a stretch to expect everything will be fixed by now. When 18 months has gone by, thats a better guide. End of the day, we can all comment on what has been good and what has been bad. Thats easy for National as the good and not so good has happened. For the new lot, it hasnt started

The photo shoot is just an indication of how I think she is as a leader. I wouldn't (much) care about it, but it's a culmination of that and everything else.

The education policy actually stands to benefit me, and I *still* think it's an appalling idea.

Labour doesn't have any fresh ideas, they are just throwing money around like it's going out of fashion, National could have made themselves more popular by doing the same in the past 3 terms, but they chose to take a financially conservative view esp given there was a GFC and 4 Massive Natural disasters to worry about. Do you think Labour would have been throwing money around like they are now at the same time as managing all those issues?

It's easy to be cavalier about how Labour goes in the next 3 years, when by your own admission you don't have anything to lose.

Im not being cavalier. I care about NZ, not myself nor National, nor Labour. Maybe I am lucky that I can think like that.

Education, I think its a generally good idea as many cant afford that, but it does need rules for sure. I dont however subscribe to the posts where kids will take free education to have a year off and party. Id rather get a base paying job and party.

Throwing money around, ok, you have got my attention. :-) Why did I not vote National? I will, tell you why. They underfunded many crucial areas and turned that into surpluses. Any idiot can do that, whether it be an individual, family, or company. Thats a temporary artificial situation. It will always bite you back. Had National stated that we cant live in our means, we have to borrow, or increases taxe as what has to be done we cannot afford, then I would have no issue. But they didnt, they created surpluses by underfunding health and infrastructure. I can't forgive that. GFC. yes, that affected us, but far and away MUCH less than other countries as our banking system leaves us much less exposed. EQ. EQC, formerly the Earthquake and War Damage Commission has been building finds for decades. JK said there is plenty left well into Feb 22. Where was that money? Its Reserves. But in reality its spent on many ventures, as its dead money, not likely to be required in the short term, but it is there. Accounting wise it is not a cost, it is an asset.

In 3 years time, the books will be sad, election fodder for National and the Maori Party. Why? As someone needs either to A) spend the money that has been withheld, or bank it, get a surplus, and crow about it, while the existing ministries cry out for funds. Plus the NZF finds which would have applied to either Govt, and in the greater scheme of things is not life damaging, and can, and no doubt will be spread over time.

Analogy. Individual, earns an income, lives on it, pays the bills, saves some, takes care of required maintenance. Thats not NZ, National or Labour. We cannot do all of that, all of the time. That is the reality. We have few natural resources, and a low population. We cannot escape that. I agree on a number of your issues, but I cannot agree that National gave us stewardship.

We have a pretty dependent society, it seems to me. An awful lot of people seem to expect 'the government' to fix everything and provide them with XY and Z 'free'.

It doesn't help that the levels of ambition and aspiration do not seem to be especially high - as evidenced by the numerous commentators and politicians who seem to believe that a salary of $100,000 a year constitutes being rich.

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#1915882 10-Dec-2017 08:34

The photoshoot is a non-event, it doesn't really have any bearing on this discussion (IMHO). It's a publicity opportunity for her and if I were in that situation I'd jump at the chance too. If it was say a week after a natural disaster for example it might be different, but it's not. Yes, she should be working hard to get their promises into action, but in reality the PM doesn't really do a lot, it is their office/staff/advisers that do most of the work, she gives guidance & direction and holds meetings etc. Likewise it is those staff who arrange the photoshoot, not her.

The reason people make a big deal out of something like this though, is that the level of promises this election were so high, and such bold and passionate comparisons were made between the 'dismal' performance of the previous govt and labour's wonderful plan for NZ that we all have very high expectations of them. They might regret being so liberal in a few months when they realize they have bitten off more that they can chew. I just hope? they focus more on they schemes with some virtue, e.g. child poverty (still not convinced that this is a much of an issue that labour makes of it but that's BTW) rather than spending time on their prehistoric policies like restoring rights to collective bargaining for workers, and free tertiary education ( unfortunately the latter has already happened :( ).

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#1915917 10-Dec-2017 10:43

Since this has become about perception, my perception is that those who just don't like Labour and the left are reaching for any reason they can find to justify their dislike and make those they disapprove of look as bad as possible. I agree with tdgeek on this one. I think JA and her crew certainly will make mistakes, especially beginner mistakes, as everyone does, regardless of which side they come from. I also think it is still too soon to pass judgement. If you want to find fault, you will find it. Give it a few months at least, and then maybe a pattern will begin to emerge. Right now it is just negative bad loser carping.

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#1916000 10-Dec-2017 13:25

According to this the anti-government brigade is in a diminishing minority. Most people seem to like the way things are going. I guess that means they also approve of JA's photo sessions.

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#1916017 10-Dec-2017 14:32

Rikkitic:

According to this the anti-government brigade is in a diminishing minority. Most people seem to like the way things are going. I guess that means they also approve of JA's photo sessions.

Perhaps we should wait until actual substantial changes are made or at least the specific details of policies are provided before conducting such polls. At this juncture, nothing can be logically inferred.

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#1916420 11-Dec-2017 10:01

Rikkitic:

According to this the anti-government brigade is in a diminishing minority. Most people seem to like the way things are going. I guess that means they also approve of JA's photo sessions.

And according to this, the "anti-government brigade" is increasing in size. You can probably find a poll on any given day to suit the narrative of your choice.

For my part, I'm more concerned about the abject incompetence and dishonesty on display than anything else...

- Turning up on day 1, not knowing how many MPs they had to vote on the speaker, then lying about it afterwards

- Campaigning on openness and transparency and then fighting tooth and nail to keep the coalition agreement details secret

- Claiming to have never lied (and that she wouldn't lie) and then almost immediately lying about an encounter with Trump

- Kelvin Davis ('nuff said)

- Refusing to answer simple written questions in the house (by requesting a more specific framing of the question) then complaining when the specifically framed questions that they requested are submitted.

- Making history by voting against the motion to carry one of their own bills because they're not prepared to debate the next piece of legislation.

At 6 weeks in, it's a complete cluster**** with little sign that it's about to get better anytime soon. This government seems to have done a "good enough" job of criticising their opponent to be given a shot at making things better, but (to date) have yet to even look remotely able to provide a viable alternative.

I find myself in agreement with Gwynn Compton

Labour's ineptitude in the House appears to have been capped off this evening as Labour first deployed its backbenchers, then had to rush eight ministers to the House, including Chris Hipkins and Grant Robertson, to filibuster legislation on their own Order Paper. At the time of writing, government MPs are having to literally read subparts of the legislation they're speaking on and make up fluff around it. We've even had a speech on the meaning of the word "is".

What's phenomenal about this is that normally the government treasures House time, there's typically such a demand on it that it's difficult to get new legislation introduced because there's such a backlog to deal with. What we're seeing instead is a government who on the one hand claiming that they're busy, and on the other revealing that they're not so much asleep at the wheel, but that they're completely missing from the car of government, having fallen out of the driver's door some four miles down the round.

networkn

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#1916426 11-Dec-2017 10:07

Succinctly put @6fiend

A government who is learning on the job! Just what NZ needs.

I am interested to hear what @rikkitic has to say about the lying, since she had such an issue with National apparently doing the same? Also about transparency.

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#1916430 11-Dec-2017 10:14

Sorry - I got a little worked up and forgot the point I was going to make :-)

And that is...

The photo-op is a distraction. A low-risk puff-piece and feelgood story to divert attention from the incompetence and disarray and fill newspaper political sections with anything other than backdowns, u-turns and in Ron Mark's case arrogance on a galactic scale.

MikeB4

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#1916458 11-Dec-2017 10:34

I have more or less surrendered on posting in this thread. I don't believe any combination of the current set of political parties from both sides of the house are up to the job. It's a second and third division competition.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#1916468 11-Dec-2017 10:42

One of the things from the Rikki poll posted, was that in line with expectations, Labour has taken some of NZF's support. They would be close to not even making it to parliament if an election were held right now. At the next election, it's going to be interesting because there could only be Greens and Labour left standing against National.

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MikeB4

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#1916470 11-Dec-2017 10:42

Good grief https://www.msn.com/en-nz/lifestyle/style/jacinda-ardern-clothing-now-on-sale/ar-BBGv66B?li=AAaUOAg&ocid=spartanntp

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#1916472 11-Dec-2017 10:44

I just threw up a little in my mouth.

MikeB4

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#1916532 11-Dec-2017 11:09

networkn:

I just threw up a little in my mouth.

My reaction was a string of colourful metaphors and expletives, then laughter. What next Jacinda Dolls?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Rikkitic

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#1916541 11-Dec-2017 11:10

6FIEND:

And according to this, the "anti-government brigade" is increasing in size. You can probably find a poll on any given day to suit the narrative of your choice.

.....

I find myself in agreement with Gwynn Compton

Yep. You choose your poll and I will choose mine. As far as Gwynn Compton goes, that is just another National lackey grinding his axe. You might as well be quoting networkn.

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