Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Networkn
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#1916543 11-Dec-2017 11:12

Rikkitic:

6FIEND:

And according to this, the "anti-government brigade" is increasing in size. You can probably find a poll on any given day to suit the narrative of your choice.

.....

I find myself in agreement with Gwynn Compton

Yep. You choose your poll and I will choose mine. As far as Gwynn Compton goes, that is just another National lackey grinding his axe. You might as well be quoting networkn.

Wow. Just wow. Typical.

tdgeek

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#1916544 11-Dec-2017 11:16

MikeB4:

I have more or less surrendered on posting in this thread. I don't believe any combination of the current set of political parties from both sides of the house are up to the job. It's a second and third division competition.

Same here re posting, we already have the Trump bashing thread, this one is just as irrational and emotive. Although the polls (3 or 4) just released do show Labs are holding the support should an election be held now

Second and third division, yes, I agree. Nats let the place run itself, neo-liberalism, that became a fail. Labs will attempt to fix long standing issues, and while that will be less than a resounding success, its something. Should their repair job be less then stellar, or very meh, we are no worse off than what we were before.

When they have had 3 years experience and National leader Bridges brings his youth, that will be a new era, IMHO.

No, Simon Bridges isn't the National leader, but he will be.

6FIEND

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#1916549 11-Dec-2017 11:22

Rikkitic:

Yep. You choose your poll and I will choose mine. As far as Gwynn Compton goes, that is just another National lackey grinding his axe. You might as well be quoting networkn.

Generally speaking, when you're reduced to attacking the messenger and petty name-calling rather than addressing the points made, you may as well pack up and go home.

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#1916564 11-Dec-2017 11:29

networkn:

One of the things from the Rikki poll posted, was that in line with expectations, Labour has taken some of NZF's support. They would be close to not even making it to parliament if an election were held right now. At the next election, it's going to be interesting because there could only be Greens and Labour left standing against National.

And then voters will have a clear choice. Isn't democracy wonderful?

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Pumpedd

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#1916565 11-Dec-2017 11:31

Rikkitic:

6FIEND:

And according to this, the "anti-government brigade" is increasing in size. You can probably find a poll on any given day to suit the narrative of your choice.

.....

I find myself in agreement with Gwynn Compton

Yep. You choose your poll and I will choose mine. As far as Gwynn Compton goes, that is just another National lackey grinding his axe. You might as well be quoting networkn.

Your poll is actually quite typical for a new Government as far as leaders go. Usually the current PM is quite a bit higher than anyone else but the overall Government poll is quite a bit lower than this particular time after an election.

Rikkitic

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#1916567 11-Dec-2017 11:37

6FIEND:

Rikkitic:

Yep. You choose your poll and I will choose mine. As far as Gwynn Compton goes, that is just another National lackey grinding his axe. You might as well be quoting networkn.

Generally speaking, when you're reduced to attacking the messenger and petty name-calling rather than addressing the points made, you may as well pack up and go home.

What are the points made? Someone who is clearly in the National camp says the new government is doing a bad job. That is hardly new or surprising. One only has to read through this thread. I think it is relevant to look at someone's vested interests when they issue political criticisms. According to Compton himself, the National Party is his paymaster and he clearly supports them. Nothing wrong with that, but I think it does add nuance to his observations. He hardly passes muster as an objective critic.

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Rikkitic

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#1916568 11-Dec-2017 11:39

Pumpedd:

Your poll is actually quite typical for a new Government as far as leaders go. Usually the current PM is quite a bit higher than anyone else but the overall Government poll is quite a bit lower than this particular time after an election.

Good point. It will be interesting to see how it pans out over time.

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Rikkitic

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#1916578 11-Dec-2017 11:51

networkn:

I am interested to hear what @rikkitic has to say about the lying, since she had such an issue with National apparently doing the same? Also about transparency.

Sorry, I did reply to this and then I somehow lost it in cyberspace. Darn. I haven't been following things as closely since after the election as I have been preoccupied with other matters so I don't really know about her 'lying'. Did she? Yes, I know about the stuff-up in Parliament but I'm not sure what happened with Trump, if anything. If so, shame on her. Shame on every politician who does. But I still maintain that it is too early to pass judgement on the new government, unless you are just absolutely determined to find fault, in which case you will. In six months I will be prepared to deliver my own personal verdict. I think that is a reasonable time period. Maybe they will be a disaster. Maybe they won't. In either case I am glad the country is at least trying something different for a change. I do not happen to feel that National has made a spectacular success of things either. Homelessness, the housing bubble, lack of investment in productivity, environmental degradation, and some other things I could mention are not hallmarks of good governance.

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rjt123

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#1916584 11-Dec-2017 11:59

normally speaking there is a an element or movement of, "well, this is the government we've got, lets make the best of it" which captures support from the centrists and moderates from both ends of the spectrum. For many, while there is no immediate prospect of an election their instinct is to support the current administration, kind-of just to demonstrate a certain solidarity. But when the stardust of the new government settles and the reality of their (in)competence is made more obvious then polls start to reflect a certain reasoning and weighing up of performance and inner political leanings start to exert themselves more strongly. So it's quite normal for the government to enjoy reasonably strong support for the short-term, indeed it would be quite concerning if they didn't as it would call into question how they were elected in the first place. The real polls will be the ones after the first 100 days. One never knows, this government my surprise us all (in a good way).

My personal view is that this government is a slow motion train-wreck, but until they completely come off the rails they are the government, and I want them to do the best they can for NZ (and preferably refrain from doing their worst).

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#1916585 11-Dec-2017 12:00

Pumpedd:

Your poll is actually quite typical for a new Government as far as leaders go. Usually the current PM is quite a bit higher than anyone else but the overall Government poll is quite a bit lower than this particular time after an election.

Agree. On reflection its probably not that surprising. Labour is a new look party, not the established one, so there would be doubt as its an unknown. Nat and Lab rose 2 points, Greens up 1, NZF down 2. The interesting stat is 51% think its on the right track, 26 think its not, thats solid. 23% dont know, even more to the point.

In 3 and 6 months time, the support and do not support will command most of the poll, the don't know will be a lot less, then there will be something worth discussing.

QUOTE

The 1News/Colmar Brunton poll had National leading the pack of parties at 46 per cent - up two points on their election result.

Labour was up two also at 39 per cent, the Greens up one at seven per cent, and New Zealand First down two at five per cent.

TOP and the Maori Party were both at one per cent.

These results would translate into a roughly similar result in Parliament as what the election delivered: National could not govern with just ACT, and Labour, the Greens, and NZ First could still govern together.

Ardern was by far the most popular preferred Prime Minster, soaring to 37 per cent while National leader Bill English dropped to 28 per cent. NZ First's Winston Peters was at five per cent.

In 1999 and 2008 the new Labour and National governments both enjoyed substantial polling bounces.A slim majority of the country thought the new Government were going in the right direction - 51 per cent. Just 26 per cent thought the Government was going in the wrong direction, and 23 per cent didn't know.

END OF QUOTE

tdgeek

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#1916588 11-Dec-2017 12:02

rjt123:
normally speaking there is a an element or movement of, "well, this is the government we've got, lets make the best of it" which captures support from the centrists and moderates from both ends of the spectrum. For many, while there is no immediate prospect of an election their instinct is to support the current administration, kind-of just to demonstrate a certain solidarity. But when the stardust of the new government settles and the reality of their (in)competence is made more obvious then polls start to reflect a certain reasoning and weighing up of performance and inner political leanings start to exert themselves more strongly. So it's quite normal for the government to enjoy reasonably strong support for the short-term, indeed it would be quite concerning if they didn't as it would call into question how they were elected in the first place. The real polls will be the ones after the first 100 days. One never knows, this government my surprise us all (in a good way).

My personal view is that this government is a slow motion train-wreck, but until they completely come off the rails they are the government, and I want them to do the best they can for NZ (and preferably refrain from doing their worst).

Generally agree.

I cannot comment on the new Govt as its new, new in makeup and new in Govt. Its all speculation right now

rjt123

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#1916590 11-Dec-2017 12:08

People hold out high house prices as an example of failure on the part of the National govt. I'd be interested to know just how much people out there (left and right wing) feel it is appropriate for a government to intervene in the housing market. And what tangible actions should the government have taken. I'm very much a neo-liberal, and believe in laissez-faire economics (e.g. with minimal intervention the house prices in Auckland now appear to be plateauing or dropping even if it took longer than some would like). Thoughts...?

Rikkitic

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#1916642 11-Dec-2017 12:40

My thought is they never should have been allowed to get so out of control in the first place, and that is when there should have been intervention. Measures to bring house prices down hurt those who have already bought houses. Far better to keep prices for going up at ridiculous rates.

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MikeB4

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#1916655 11-Dec-2017 12:57

Rikkitic:

My thought is they never should have been allowed to get so out of control in the first place, and that is when there should have been intervention. Measures to bring house prices down hurt those who have already bought houses. Far better to keep prices for going up at ridiculous rates.

What type of intervention do you believe should have been done and when?

tdgeek

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#1916656 11-Dec-2017 12:58

rjt123: People hold out high house prices as an example of failure on the part of the National govt. I'd be interested to know just how much people out there (left and right wing) feel it is appropriate for a government to intervene in the housing market. And what tangible actions should the government have taken. I'm very much a neo-liberal, and believe in laissez-faire economics (e.g. with minimal intervention the house prices in Auckland now appear to be plateauing or dropping even if it took longer than some would like). Thoughts...?

Neo liberalism is not a bad thing, but when its a small country, it becomes very easy for factors to skew matters. Foreign buyers don't need to be here in thousands to affect house prices, a couple per auction will do that. We then see a trend of house prices being expensive for us but cheap for foreigners, so like milk, we pay international prices. That is a fair intervention. Reigning in RMA costs is a fair intervention. Adjusting LVR up or down is fair, especially if you can use that to aid lower income earners, or favour building over existing homes. You have to wonder how some builders go broke in the past climate here. Something is out of balance. If some intervention made it an even playing field for buyers, fair for builders, then let it run itself. This 100,000 homes policy isn't there for you and my to buy a house, its for the many want to be home owners who are now shut out permanently. The fact that house prices are stable is meaningless, that just means that the level of lack of affordability remains stable. Little joy for those that missed out as prices already rose above their modest budget, both in terms of deposit and/or repayment affordability

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