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MikeAqua
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  #2541138 14-Aug-2020 16:35
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Fred99:

 

MikeAqua:

 

Exactly my point ... Labour were opposed a business running a prison (something I agree with them on), but Clark seems to be all for a business running a compulsory quarantine facility. 

 

An MIQ hotel is obviously very, very different from a prison but you still aren't allowed to leave so there are some similarities: People depend entirely on whoever is running the facility for their welfare.  

 

 

She should have had the common sense as a long retired PM/politician to keep her opinions to herself - especially as it comes across as critical of operational decisions made by the party she once led, and that she's had a relatively high profile internationally.  

 

Anyway both she and John Key made comments in favour of greatly increasing the number of people crossing the border to come to NZ.  I guess they were both paid to speak, so felt obliged to tell the audience what they paid to hear.   I expect those opinions would go down like a cup of cold sick if repeated today.

 

 

Clark was making her comments within a role she has fro WHO.  I have noticed though, that where most former PMS keep a low profile, Clark actively seeks a public profile in NZ.





Mike




MikeAqua
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  #2541144 14-Aug-2020 16:47
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Handle9:
It's also not where Brownlee was going with his BS. He was going down the "they knew and never told anyone" road.

 

I never said anything about Brownlee.  If he had said "they very strongly suspected" instead of "they knew" His position would be quite defensible IMO.  Possibly even if he said "They ought to have known" he would be correct.  I wonder if he had come out and said, I think we are heading into a second wave, how that would have been received.  It's a tough time to be in opposition, the public doesn't seem to want one right now.   

 

My read is that govt wasn't explicit about their level of concern, but .... if someone says go buy a raincoat, it's a reasonable conclusion they're expecting rain.

 

If you think govt should explicitly disclose changes in its current assessment of both of risk level and trend in risk, on an ongoing basis, then you have cause for complaint.

 

 

 

 





Mike




Rikkitic
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  #2541160 14-Aug-2020 17:08
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More lack of class from National as 'Merv' resigns from board. Jeez, if this is the quality of their senior people, I would vote for Advance New Zealand before I voted for National.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


antonknee
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  #2541222 14-Aug-2020 17:49
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MikeAqua:

 

It's a tough time to be in opposition, the public doesn't seem to want one right now.   

 

I think the public wants one, they just want a competent opposition who does more than bark at passing cars, be obstinate and non-constructive, and peddle conspiracy theories. This opposition ain't it.

 

MikeAqua:

 

My read is that govt wasn't explicit about their level of concern, but .... if someone says go buy a raincoat, it's a reasonable conclusion they're expecting rain.

 

If you think govt should explicitly disclose changes in its current assessment of both of risk level and trend in risk, on an ongoing basis, then you have cause for complaint.

 

 

Absolutely to both of these things - and I do wish we had gone harder on pushing preventative measures and contact tracing even while we at level 1. Probably a tough line to walk between getting people prepared and inciting panic I guess. 

 

Again, to be clear, I highly doubt the government had any information about or concrete reason to suspect community transmission.


antonknee
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  #2541232 14-Aug-2020 17:55
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quickymart:

 

Speaking of Gerry...

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122453434/gerry-brownlee-admits-getting-into-a-bad-spot-over-covid-conspiracy-theories

 

 

 

 

What an absolute copout of an apology. Brownlee is an utter cretin, and he knew exactly what he was doing presenting his 'interesting series of facts' and then not answering questions on it. The claim they simply meant to accuse the government of a lack of transparency is totally flimsy.

 

This was harmful political point scoring at best, and was a vapid attempt at sowing fear, uncertainty, and doubt. At worst it was genuine conspiracy peddling. I think Brownlee was testing the waters on how this kind of behaviour would go down, and I'm quite glad the media, public, and other politicians have called him out on it.

 

 

Brownlee admitted he had got himself into a “bad spot” and that he “certainly didn’t intend to create any fear”.

 

“The way it has been presented has been unfortunate, I’ve certainly not enjoyed it,” he said.

 

“It’s not my intention at a time like this to create any degree of uncertainty...


GV27
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  #2541241 14-Aug-2020 18:02
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He can show how much he regrets it by not doing it again. Second best thing to not having done it in the first place. 

 

There's so, so much to question and challenge the government on the Covid response, there's no conceivable need to do it in that way. 


 
 
 

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tdgeek
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  #2541249 14-Aug-2020 18:24
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GV27:

 

He can show how much he regrets it by not doing it again. Second best thing to not having done it in the first place. 

 

There's so, so much to question and challenge the government on the Covid response, there's no conceivable need to do it in that way. 

 

 

So so much?  Well I guess from your view. Keeping the 37000 in Paremoremo would have given the certainly some seem to want if you want to stop flouters who break windows and fences. Its a legal issue to force tests, how can you turn MIQ into a prison legally? But yeah, correct thread I guess. All I can think of is its too too much after 2 weeks of level 4. get the border open, bubbles, and so on. To help the economy you mitigate the virus as much as you can or be Sweden or be Victoria


GV27
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  #2541317 14-Aug-2020 20:00
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tdgeek:

 

So so much?  Well I guess from your view.

 

 

Why we claimed we went "hard and early" when MOH was advising events should be cancelled in early March and Pasifika/March 15th were only cancelled at the 11th hour. 

 

Why people were being let out of isolation without ever being tested. 

 

Why there were so many conflicting messages about PPE, flu shots, rostering of nurses, admission of rest home patients on general hospital wards, etc. 

 

Why the border staff weren't being tested regularly, some not at all, until media started asking questions. 

 

Why we aren't extending a L3 lockdown to the Waikato even though the Auckland cluster extends that far already.  

 

Some expert in the paper this morning rating our response as a 2 or 3 out of 10. It's great if you just accept the slogans at face value, but once you start asking whether they stack up, it becomes obvious that actions and media-friendly catch-phrases don't always align when it comes to our track record. 

 

 

 

Like I say, plenty for National to talk about if they decide to actually focus on the response, not trying to insinuate some sort of conspiracy. 


gzt

gzt
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  #2541353 14-Aug-2020 21:19
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Rikkitic: More lack of class from National as 'Merv' resigns from board. Jeez, if this is the quality of their senior people, I would vote for Advance New Zealand before I voted for National.

To me this is class shown by Collins. The board member demonstrated a public lack of integrity and has more or less been removed. If you have ever listened to Auckland talkback radio you'll know this kind of silly behaviour is shockingly common and kind of obvious. If someone is making a start on putting an end to it that's a good thing in my book. Hopefully this will have a chilling effect on the activity.

Rikkitic
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  #2541363 14-Aug-2020 21:44
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Would Collins have acted if he hadn't been outed?

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


quickymart
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  #2541366 14-Aug-2020 21:49
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I think she wouldn't have done anything at all, and just hoped it went away. Either that, or raised her eyebrow a little.

 

I saw on some of the local billboards in my electorate (Northcote) someone had gone around a few days ago and cut her face out in a perfect circle. My local MP's image was left untouched.

 

Question - do the parties actually have to ask the homeowner before putting them on the street-facing side of their fence? Or can they just go and stick them up any old where they like?


tdgeek
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  #2541414 15-Aug-2020 07:26
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GV27:

 

Why we claimed we went "hard and early" when MOH was advising events should be cancelled in early March and Pasifika/March 15th were only cancelled at the 11th hour. 

 

Why people were being let out of isolation without ever being tested. 

 

Why there were so many conflicting messages about PPE, flu shots, rostering of nurses, admission of rest home patients on general hospital wards, etc. 

 

Why the border staff weren't being tested regularly, some not at all, until media started asking questions. 

 

Why we aren't extending a L3 lockdown to the Waikato even though the Auckland cluster extends that far already.  

 

Some expert in the paper this morning rating our response as a 2 or 3 out of 10. It's great if you just accept the slogans at face value, but once you start asking whether they stack up, it becomes obvious that actions and media-friendly catch-phrases don't always align when it comes to our track record. 

 

 

 

Like I say, plenty for National to talk about if they decide to actually focus on the response, not trying to insinuate some sort of conspiracy. 

 

 

How did our pandemic plan go? We didn't use it as it wasn't suitable for this pandemic. We learn't on the fly. No, we didnt have 50 million masks, other PPE, 1 million health and enforcement workers to babysit everyone, nor 500,000 on contact tracing call centres. 102 days. This outbreak will be contained. Im happy enough with it. We could have gone dictatorship, that would have worked well, but we aren't in a dictatorship. Ewe could have thrown out Level 4 after 2 weeks, shortcut the rest as its really only about the economy. But we don't live in Victoria, or had a Govt with that mindset, they happened to be in Opposition. If you feel we could have easily gone out of the blocks and nailed 99% of everything, your in a  different reality.


GV27
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  #2541594 15-Aug-2020 13:24
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tdgeek:

 

If you feel we could have easily gone out of the blocks and nailed 99% of everything, your in a  different reality.

 

 

I guess it's hard to reconcile the 'learning on the job' with the portrayal of a calculating, conservative and well-executed response, which is what the international media would have us believe we had.

 

Today, admissions that quarantine staff were not being tested to the level the Minister was assured they were being tested. 

 

"Everyone makes mistakes" is what I'd tell a toddler when they fall over or lose a ball over the fence. It's not good enough if Labour want to keep using phrases like 'this is a Covid19 election'. Devil-may-care/National would be worse!!! is not an acceptable response to process failure during a global pandemic.

 

Let me know when we have a day without a revelation of a systematic failure. I might be in a better mood then. 


GV27
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  #2541596 15-Aug-2020 13:28
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Rikkitic:

 

Would Collins have acted if he hadn't been outed?

 

 

If you don't think people in political parties astroturf like this all the time, I've got a bridge to sell you. His mistake was getting caught and being lazy about it, and also ragging on his own party ( to put it politely, defecating where he ate). 

 

See today: Two letters from Auckland's North Shore in the Herald letters section making almost the exact same "where is the evidence of a failure in our Covid19 response" pushback on Collins. 

 

Almost certainly organised running interference. Everyone does it. It's when you start leaking personal details to people that it becomes' black ops'. 


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