NZ Election 2020

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#2544426 19-Aug-2020 13:31

Oldmanakbar:

Now you are just nitpicking. 102 without any reported and verified community transmission. Is that more accurate.

You know what she meant.

She was claiming we had the longest unbroken run of no community transmission. In the context of that, there is no way to interpret it any other way than what she literally said.

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#2544434 19-Aug-2020 13:38

I seem to recall her specifically saying no known community transmission and also repeatedly stating that the virus definitely would return. You are nitpicking.

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#2544447 19-Aug-2020 13:51

networkn:

But absolutely, assuredly, impossibly, it was not Jacinda's or anyone else's fault, in the Government.

It was the fault of those not doing their jobs. They should definitely be held accountable.

If you seriously think sacking the PM, or the Minister, or Dr Bloomfield over this, would improve anything, you are crazy. If you think putting Judith Collins or Brownlee in charge would somehow make things better, you are certifiable.

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#2544453 19-Aug-2020 13:59

Rikkitic:

I seem to recall her specifically saying no known community transmission and also repeatedly stating that the virus definitely would return. You are nitpicking.

I have listened to her press conference today. I am re-listening to it now. She claimed we had 102 days of no community transmission. Nothing about 'known' transmission. It's factually incorrect.

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#2544455 19-Aug-2020 14:01

Rikkitic:

It was the fault of those not doing their jobs. They should definitely be held accountable.

But that's the problem isn't it, there IS no accountability. You might think they have done a wonderful job, I don't think so. I think they made a pretty straight forward decision to lock down and since then, we have been unbelievably lucky that wasn't a nigh complete waste of time. There have been reports of mixing at Quarantine facilities, *repeated* discoveries that testing hasn't been done when it was supposed to be (you might get away with one of those, but beyond that, it's incompetence), and repeated claims that things were one way to discover they weren't at all like that. Don't even get me started on claims of "enough PPE, enough Flu Vaccines". The projected cost is $440M per *week* of lockdown.

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#2544457 19-Aug-2020 14:02

GV27:

I have listened to her press conference today. I am re-listening to it now. She claimed we had 102 days of no community transmission. Nothing about 'known' transmission. It's factually incorrect.

I listened to it as well. I was referring to earlier statements she has made.

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#2544462 19-Aug-2020 14:08

Rikkitic:

I listened to it as well. I was referring to earlier statements she has made.

So the PM should be able to make statements which are demonstrably untrue because she has included the relevant qualifiers on previous occasions?

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#2544464 19-Aug-2020 14:10

networkn:

Rikkitic:

It was the fault of those not doing their jobs. They should definitely be held accountable.

But that's the problem isn't it, there IS no accountability. You might think they have done a wonderful job, I don't think so. I think they made a pretty straight forward decision to lock down and since then, we have been unbelievably lucky that wasn't a nigh complete waste of time. There have been reports of mixing at Quarantine facilities, *repeated* discoveries that testing hasn't been done when it was supposed to be (you might get away with one of those, but beyond that, it's incompetence), and repeated claims that things were one way to discover they weren't at all like that. Don't even get me started on claims of "enough PPE, enough Flu Vaccines". The projected cost is $440M per *week* of lockdown.

And yet we have somehow miraculously been lucky. Even with the current outbreak we are doing extremely well compared to almost anywhere else. I don't live in Auckland and where I am life is still pretty normal. Shops are open, few masks to be seen, life goes on. I know I would rather be here than anywhere else I can think of.

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#2544465 19-Aug-2020 14:12

GV27:

Rikkitic:

I listened to it as well. I was referring to earlier statements she has made.

So the PM should be able to make statements which are demonstrably untrue because she has included the relevant qualifiers on previous occasions?

You are obsessing over one word. Just accept that you don't like her.

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#2544477 19-Aug-2020 14:41

I was thinking the other day watching Ardern and Bloomfield, that it must be an exhausting job. Regardless of how well or not you think they manage this, it's still a massive responsibility and a whole level again to have to front media.

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#2544488 19-Aug-2020 14:55

Rikkitic:

You are obsessing over one word. Just accept that you don't like her.

The word I am 'obsessing' over on changes the meaning of what she claims and its basis for credibility.

I actually like Jacinda. That does not mean I'm going to look the other way when she says things that are untrue. That's not a trade-off you actually have to make.

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#2544495 19-Aug-2020 15:07

GV27:

Rikkitic:

You are obsessing over one word. Just accept that you don't like her.

The word I am 'obsessing' over on changes the meaning of what she claims and its basis for credibility.

I actually like Jacinda. That does not mean I'm going to look the other way when she says things that are untrue. That's not a trade-off you actually have to make.

I like her too. She has been building credibility since the election and the multiple tragedies she has steered this country through. I don't think she has to prove a thing. Some people here resent her success on the international stage, but she is not a superstar for no reason. She has enormous credibility throughout the world, and it is well-deserved. Maybe she meant to say known, and just forgot. It happens. I think you are placing far too much emphasis on this.

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#2544541 19-Aug-2020 15:21

Rikkitic:

I like her too. She has been building credibility since the election and the multiple tragedies she has steered this country through. I don't think she has to prove a thing. Some people here resent her success on the international stage, but she is not a superstar for no reason. She has enormous credibility throughout the world, and it is well-deserved. Maybe she meant to say known, and just forgot. It happens. I think you are placing far too much emphasis on this.

I feel a lot of her success on the world stage is to do with a handful of incidents that are extremely high-profile, but overall she has led an ineffective government that was elected on a unrealistic campaign platform of policies their team neither had the inclination or capability to deliver. I find this infuriating given their willingness to attack the previous government for inaction and neglect, only to spend three years dithering and walking away from their policy platforms, while migration continued, house prices rose and key infrastructure projects were deferred.

Having said that, I do like her. I also liked Bill English. I'm not really sure that Kiwis would have been that much worse off under him though. My biggest frustration is the missed opportunity and the feeling that NZ will still facing the same problems, writing the same reports and not actually doing anything about them in a decade's time. We should expect better, and I believe Labour's lack of talent and the media's desire to softball Ardern questions means we won't get it.

Re: her remarks, it appears the Beehive keeps transcripts of the actual conferences, not the original speeches, so we will never know whether she misspoke or it was written into her speech.

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#2544545 19-Aug-2020 15:31

GV27:

Fred99:

I believe that in NZ, staff at rest-homes work shifts in different facilities.

If true, this is sheer lunacy.

Edit: Here's the article in SMH - he worked at Flemington Markets and a court (not a supermarket).

In a similar vein, I think there were some rostering issues with Covid19 patients transferred into hospitals and nurses being rostered onto Covid19 wards and general wards - I have a feeling it was Waitakere? It seemed hard to believe but there seems to be all these little things which make so little sense once they actually emerge as problems.

Definitely underscores the need for a whole-scale revamp of the pandemic plan - a lot of these procedural changes shouldn't be something we only do once we're in the thick of things.

This all fails biosecurity 101. People and mobile equipment are usually the weakest links.

As an example: I visited a prawn breeding facility once. They had site A which was certified disease free and produced broodstock. These animals then went to Site B to produce high health status juveniles. Site B had a higher risk status. Nothing and no-one from Site B ever went into Site A.

Mike

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#2544590 19-Aug-2020 15:45

GV27:

I feel a lot of her success on the world stage is to do with a handful of incidents that are extremely high-profile, but overall she has led an ineffective government that was elected on a unrealistic campaign platform of policies their team neither had the inclination or capability to deliver. I find this infuriating given their willingness to attack the previous government for inaction and neglect, only to spend three years dithering and walking away from their policy platforms, while migration continued, house prices rose and key infrastructure projects were deferred.

Having said that, I do like her. I also liked Bill English. I'm not really sure that Kiwis would have been that much worse off under him though. My biggest frustration is the missed opportunity and the feeling that NZ will still facing the same problems, writing the same reports and not actually doing anything about them in a decade's time. We should expect better, and I believe Labour's lack of talent and the media's desire to softball Ardern questions means we won't get it.

Re: her remarks, it appears the Beehive keeps transcripts of the actual conferences, not the original speeches, so we will never know whether she misspoke or it was written into her speech.

These are fair points and I agree to an extent. Jacinda Ardern is a superstar. Unfortunately, most of the material she has to work with is not.

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