Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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#2964167 7-Sep-2022 12:39

networkn:

Playing devils advocate, either this or the next will need to raise revenue somehow, Covid put us in a pretty decent-sized hole. I'd like to see what the Government intends to do to raise productivity.

Covid didn't put us in a decent-sized hole, the government response did. If they want the kudos of managing it well when the sun was shining, then they have to live with the flow-on effects of their decisions. There's probably a bunch of people renewing mortgages in the next six months who are going to be pretty miffed if they're going to be asked to chip even more on top of what the government already takes by stealth/inflation.

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#2964173 7-Sep-2022 12:44

GV27:

Covid didn't put us in a decent-sized hole, the government response did. If they want the kudos of managing it well when the sun was shining, then they have to live with the flow-on effects of their decisions. There's probably a bunch of people renewing mortgages in the next six months who are going to be pretty miffed if they're going to be asked to chip even more on top of what the government already takes by stealth/inflation.

Well, much as I dislike the way this Government operates, the majority of it's policies, and almost all of it's execution, I am not going to blame them for Covid, nor for creating a response. I have been less than impressed in some elements of it's delivery and some aspects of wasted or overspend, but in something this big, no Government is going to handle it perfectly. No matter who was in charge, there was going to be a cost to a response, and that creates a hole that needs to be filled. Given on top of the cost, we have lost considerable revenue due to various industries like Tourism all but evaporating, there will need to be an adjustment to compensate.

It's almost inevitable that tax increases in some manner or another will be coming.

GV27

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#2964182 7-Sep-2022 12:50

networkn:

It's almost inevitable that tax increases in some manner or another will be coming.

That really depends if they are being realistic about their ability to actually do something.

Otherwise it's just an exercise in policy hype, generally with little care for actual outcomes, as they help themselves to more and more of taxpayer's disposable income.

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#2964184 7-Sep-2022 12:59

GV27:

That really depends if they are being realistic about their ability to actually do something.

Otherwise it's just an exercise in policy hype, generally with little care for actual outcomes, as they help themselves to more and more of taxpayer's disposable income.

Taxes are wildly unpopular and so I can't see them announcing tax policy unless they intend to go through with it. Execution is a whole different thing.

Communication has been perceived as the Governments strong suit (read Jacinda's) and even that seems to be falling apart now. It's much harder to communicate when you aren't in control of the narrative and information.

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#2964198 7-Sep-2022 13:27

Scott3: The women were publicly vilified for crossing the border with then Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins accusing them of using "false information to travel across the border"

I recall there were a lot of crazed comments on geekzone about gangs spreading covid blah blah etc at the time, and similar sentiments expressed by news commentators demanding condemnation from the government and things like that based on leaks about leaks and Peters's comments. Looks like the government got caught up in that and felt the need to respond without knowing all the facts. Perhaps there's something to be learned by everyone there.

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#2964206 7-Sep-2022 13:31

gzt:
Scott3: The women were publicly vilified for crossing the border with then Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins accusing them of using "false information to travel across the border"

I recall there were a lot of crazed comments on geekzone about gangs spreading covid blah blah etc at the time, and similar sentiments expressed by news commentators demanding condemnation from the government and things like that based on leaks about leaks and Peters's comments. Looks like the government got caught up in that and felt the need to respond without knowing all the facts. Perhaps there's something to be learned by everyone there.

I think that's a pretty gentle way to characterise that situation. Something to be learned? The Government knew 3 days prior to Hipkins making his comments. Hard to see how that wasn't deliberate. If it was, then there should be some very serious consequences.

In some ways it's worse than standing up in front of the Nation and saying there was enough PPE, when there categorically wasn't and they knew there wasn't, or 'there are enough flu vaccines' when that was also categorically incorrect and they knew that too.

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#2964212 7-Sep-2022 13:51

networkn: I think that's a pretty gentle way to characterise that situation. Something to be learned? The Government knew 3 days prior to Hipkins making his comments.

Yeah looks like one of those situations where an apology is required. Peters I think is not part of the government and is not known for apologies anyway. The police minister of course is in a different position.

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#2964213 7-Sep-2022 13:54

gzt:
networkn: I think that's a pretty gentle way to characterise that situation. Something to be learned? The Government knew 3 days prior to Hipkins making his comments.

Yeah looks like one of those situations where an apology is required. Peters I think is not part of the government and is not known for apologies anyway. The police minister of course is in a different position.

If you were in the position of these three women or the gang leader, I wonder if you'd be satisfied by an apology. It's funny you'd say Peters isn't one for apologising, when was the last time you saw anyone from the Labour Government give one?

It increasingly looks like the NZ First party was about the only thing preventing insanity last term.

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#2964220 7-Sep-2022 14:18

networkn:

It increasingly looks like the NZ First party was about the only thing preventing insanity last term.

1000%

As questionable as Peters may be (I think he is the absolute king of Plausible Deniability), he at least kept things on more of an even keel. Labour will blame him all day long for being an uncopoerative partner excusing why things didn't get done first time round, but we are seeing increasingly the consequences of what happens when ideology isn't tempered with pragmatism and a grasp of the real world.

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#2964244 7-Sep-2022 15:01

sen8or:

1000%

As questionable as Peters may be (I think he is the absolute king of Plausible Deniability), he at least kept things on more of an even keel. Labour will blame him all day long for being an uncopoerative partner excusing why things didn't get done first time round, but we are seeing increasingly the consequences of what happens when ideology isn't tempered with pragmatism and a grasp of the real world.

Whilst I disagreed with just about every Labour policy or suggested implementation of it (which I would have regardless of the colour shirt the person suggesting it was wearing), if they had executed and got results for them, at least you could say they were aspirational and trying in their view to get NZ to a better place. The current mess is frustrating on so many levels.

A couple of decent examples:

Free Year of Tertiary Education - OK, I see the benefit in that, how about if you attend all your classes, or meet a certain level so it contains some accountability?

Business Support during Covid - Yup, get that, good idea in theory, given the length and severity of the lockdowns, reasonable to try and ease some of the pain. Giving all the money up front, stupidity. They could have paid it out weekly or monthly and required people to apply for it each time. First month could have been done with no validation required, by the second month, enough time to get some basic paperwork together etc.

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#2964252 7-Sep-2022 15:19

Peters wasn't the handbrake on Light Rail, the main problem was it blew out so far beyond what was proposed and stagnated into the monstrosity we have now.

It was buggered long before it got anywhere near cabinet, that was all nothing to do with Winston. That was all Labour's doing.

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#2964254 7-Sep-2022 15:23

GV27:

Peters wasn't the handbrake on Light Rail, the main problem was it blew out so far beyond what was proposed and stagnated into the monstrosity we have now.

It was buggered long before it got anywhere near cabinet, that was all nothing to do with Winston. That was all Labour's doing.

Ironically, about the only policy of theirs, I liked. But the way they want to implement it, even now seems stupid to me.

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#2964289 7-Sep-2022 16:07

From a purely self-serving perspective, I loved the first year free tertiary thing, both my children have utilised it as part of their Uni studies. I think a rebate at the end against their student debt would be a better way to ensure those that utilise it aren't just going to Uni for a free ride -

Upon completion of 12 months paid employment in NZ, 1 years fees rebated against student debt (or if no student debt, against IRD income tax as a refund). Don't pass or bugger off o/seas upon completion of your course and you remain liable for the full cost.

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#2964298 7-Sep-2022 16:23

sen8or:

From a purely self-serving perspective, I loved the first year free tertiary thing, both my children have utilised it as part of their Uni studies. I think a rebate at the end against their student debt would be a better way to ensure those that utilise it aren't just going to Uni for a free ride -

Upon completion of 12 months paid employment in NZ, 1 years fees rebated against student debt (or if no student debt, against IRD income tax as a refund). Don't pass or bugger off o/seas upon completion of your course and you remain liable for the full cost.

I don't have an issue giving free education, but like you, I felt it had to be linked to something else. Rebate against 1 year of employment with an NZ company or something like that seems a really reasonable thing.

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#2964304 7-Sep-2022 16:38

sen8or:

From a purely self-serving perspective, I loved the first year free tertiary thing, both my children have utilised it as part of their Uni studies. I think a rebate at the end against their student debt would be a better way to ensure those that utilise it aren't just going to Uni for a free ride -

Upon completion of 12 months paid employment in NZ, 1 years fees rebated against student debt (or if no student debt, against IRD income tax as a refund). Don't pass or bugger off o/seas upon completion of your course and you remain liable for the full cost.

On that token, maybe more chasing of people with student loan debt who bugger off overseas. It's been a whole three years since I've seen complaint posts on Australian forums from people whining that Baycorp is chasing them for that student loan they've been ignoring.

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