NZ 2023 Election Thread

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#3147743 15-Oct-2023 16:29

Getting rebuked by China might indicate you are on the right track.

Considering its pretty easy to do so, nine dash lines, Tibet, provocations around bits of India or Bhutan,
treatment of human rights lawyers, many and various human rights violations,
overseas secret police stations and threatening people who have left etc.

One could probably have been rebuked more :-)

vexxxboy

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#3147744 15-Oct-2023 16:50

ezbee:

Getting rebuked by China might indicate you are on the right track.

Considering its pretty easy to do so, nine dash lines, Tibet, provocations around bits of India or Bhutan,
treatment of human rights lawyers, many and various human rights violations,
overseas secret police stations and threatening people who have left etc.

One could probably have been rebuked more :-)

not if it is one of our biggest trading partners and you are meant to be working in the interest of your country, if you cant do that then dont accept the job.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

shk292

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#3147746 15-Oct-2023 16:58

Technofreak:

Likewise the true Greens (not the Left Wing Radical Greens) could acheive a lot by working with National. There are Teal coalitions elsewhere.

Do we have any true Greens? James Shaw possibly I suppose. The rest seem to be more red than green, classic watermelons.

If they were pure green and willing to work with left or right to achieve environmental gains, they might actually do some good. Just as National will be pulled right by ACT, I feel they could be pulled "green" by a non-left green party

ezbee

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#3147747 15-Oct-2023 17:03

China, USA etc.

Actually, you have to get these partners used to an Independent Foreign Policy based on western liberal democratic ideals.

That you say you have.

Otherwise they think they 'own you' and raise even more objections to every little thing.
Its not like we were doing anything any other western nation was doing, maybe a bit less.

Subservience brings its own dangers.
Because they expect you to be subservient any small act that might pass becomes a bigger deal.

For the issue of diversity of trade, its something we need to work on harder.
Covid did expose some exporters who had developed a 'single market' mentality.

China is going to enjoy this...
New Zealand Opposition Leader Christopher Luxon says he would 'explore' joining AUKUS if his party wins upcoming election
https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/new-zealand-opposition-leader-christopher-luxon-says-he-would-explore-joining-aukus-if-his-party-wins-upcoming-election/news-story/1012fac7703ed6a0e88157a5e9100a3c

SaltyNZ

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#3147753 15-Oct-2023 17:43

shk292:

If they were pure green and willing to work with left or right to achieve environmental gains, they might actually do some good. Just as National will be pulled right by ACT, I feel they could be pulled "green" by a non-left green party

But I repeat: the idea that the Green party could work with National on climate change is like the idea that the Anglican Church could work with Richard Dawkins on ecumenical religion.

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#3147756 15-Oct-2023 17:56

SaltyNZ:

That would be like the Anglican Church teaming up with Richard Dawkins to promote ecumenical religion. National does not believe in climate change. They say they do. But everything they do says they don't.

Exactly. Plunder the climate change fund for tax cuts that for many arent great. If you are on 150k, $40 a fortnight who cares. If you are a single starting out in life on 45k you get $9 odd a fortnight.

IIRC and correct me if im wrong they will use the ETS. Adds 40c per litre after 4 years. Thats ok if EVs are everywhere and cost effective, and especially for nation-wide goods transport (that should be electric trains and sea for green purposes, but that wont happen)

Greens did great, but its zero impact from 4 Nov. Short term wins, but fails

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tdgeek

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#3147757 15-Oct-2023 18:12

vexxxboy:

not if it is one of our biggest trading partners and you are meant to be working in the interest of your country, if you cant do that then dont accept the job.

You can respond to atrocities without punching the bear. "They" can say we do not agree but at least we respect you. You are a country that has rounding error significance, but we do respect your stance. Honour, as all Asian countries can resonate with. If you sell out, you are not great so we don't care.

Its ironic as many Asian countries are not multiculturaL We are as are most if not all Western countries are. If you put the basic $ ahead of honour to our Asian cousins, do that at your peril. Having said that, we are tiny, less than tiny so we can get away with it. Dealing with and managing some cultures, means respecting said cultures, that wont work on a spreadsheet

tdgeek

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#3147758 15-Oct-2023 18:15

shk292:

Do we have any true Greens? James Shaw possibly I suppose. The rest seem to be more red than green, classic watermelons.

If they were pure green and willing to work with left or right to achieve environmental gains, they might actually do some good. Just as National will be pulled right by ACT, I feel they could be pulled "green" by a non-left green party

Greens are awesome. But they need to focus on Green matters and not far left social issues, same as Act is far right on social issues. Problem is National isnt interested in green issues, that costs money. Lets make hay today and worry later about tomorrow.

tdgeek

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#3147759 15-Oct-2023 18:18

ezbee:

China is going to enjoy this...
New Zealand Opposition Leader Christopher Luxon says he would 'explore' joining AUKUS if his party wins upcoming election
https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/new-zealand-opposition-leader-christopher-luxon-says-he-would-explore-joining-aukus-if-his-party-wins-upcoming-election/news-story/1012fac7703ed6a0e88157a5e9100a3c

Selling out. Our tiny size means we can extract some steadfastness, but also get integrity from the super power China. Honour matters. Most if not all cannot, but we can. If we sell out then thats fine, we can buy dairy, beef and lamb at farm price plus margin... #noclue

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#3147760 15-Oct-2023 18:22

Last thing we need to do is sign up to be dominated by the US in another pointless treaty

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#3147767 15-Oct-2023 18:38

MikeB4: Last thing we need to do is sign up to be dominated by the US in another pointless treaty

100% agree. But its delicate. When we declared the non nuclear thing, well thats ok. It did affect us, but it also gave respect. Being tiny we can do that. We need to use that, show our balls, but as we are tiny, we can still trade etc. I suspect that the issues with the big two will grow, well, thats obvious, and even for NZ that will become more problematic. We need to be more self sufficient. Right now we are far from that. I come from a farming background. We used do wheat but we can buy from Australia cheaper. I assume its the same for barley for the NZ beer producers. We used to to mutton, but no more. But we do do dairy, beef and lamb, but Kiwis dont pay farm gate plus margin, we pay international prices. Every 2 months we see a media article, why is lamb cheaper in London than in Wellington. That is a problem. We dont dig $ out of the ground as our cousins over the ditch do.

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Handle9

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#3147768 15-Oct-2023 18:38

SaltyNZ:
shk292:

If they were pure green and willing to work with left or right to achieve environmental gains, they might actually do some good. Just as National will be pulled right by ACT, I feel they could be pulled "green" by a non-left green party

But I repeat: the idea that the Green party could work with National on climate change is like the idea that the Anglican Church could work with Richard Dawkins on ecumenical religion.

The whole concept is inane.

No one ever says if ACT were truely an Association for Consumers and Taxpayers they would look to go into coalition with Labour.

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#3147823 15-Oct-2023 19:41

BarTender: I am fairly confident that the voter turnout will be about 12% overall lower and 30% lower in the 18-24 in comparison to 2020.

So ultimately Labour screwed themself by not engaging with that demographic like they did last time and that resulted in a 15% swing to National.

Very interested in when the final numbers come out.

Labour screwed themselves by being incompetent. What positive reason was there to vote for them?

quickymart

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#3147832 15-Oct-2023 20:54

quickymart:

Tamaki and his Freedoms umbrella bs outfit has only got 25% of her vote. I bet he's absolutely spitting tacks right now - and I bet he'll be giving a grumpy sermon at church tomorrow too 😃

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/10/election-2023-liz-gunn-cries-brian-tamaki-rages-at-gutless-kiwis-after-losses.html

Tamaki raged at "gutless Christians" from the stage at a Destiny Church gathering held on Sunday morning, warning his congregation about "what kind of Kiwis" we have in Aotearoa according to the election results.

Looks like I called it! Also... But Gunn also reiterated her claim of significantly more support in the speech, saying: "I mean, people are deriding me for saying [we'd get] 2 million. Wouldn't it be funny if - just quietly - well over a million have actually voted for us? Let's see what they do with the numbers."

After being presented with flowers and praise from another speaker at the event, Gunn became emotional, saying she felt like "a real fraud".

Gee, Loser Liz, maybe you didn't get 2 (or even 1) million votes because not as many people like you as you think they do? Maybe that has something to do with it?

And yes, you are a fraud. Nothing more than a grifting con-artist: Those people who say 'it's a cult' or 'it's about someone', they couldn't be further from the truth."

Um, it sure looks like a cult - or being all about you - from where I'm standing! But don't let the fact of the matter get in the way of your precious, overinflated ego 🙄

You were the Advance NZ of the 2023 election. Hopefully you follow the same trajectory as them at the next election and just fade away into oblivion, too 🤞

sir1963

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#3147838 15-Oct-2023 21:11

Tamaki and Gunn failing and flailing over the HUGE loses made my day.

We do NOT want religious or conspiracy nuts anywhere in power.

I do NOT like Leighton Baker either, but his outlook was far more philosophical and reasonable.

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