Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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Awrrr
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#2987841 25-Oct-2022 15:36

You are talking about a good manager. A good leader gives people heart in times of crisis. Zelensky is an outstanding example of that. I can't say how Jacinda Ardern would respond in a similar situation, but I was hugely impressed by her daily stand-ups during the pandemic. That takes a lot more effort and preparation than people might realise. Others could have done it but it was important to the country to see their leader there every day providing reassurance and encouragement. That is what a leader does.

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sen8or

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#2987844 25-Oct-2022 15:38

Mosque attacks?

On one hand, she acted like a rational human being, offered compassion when it was appropriate to do so and was quick to condemn the actions of the attacker. Then using an isolated incident to make wholesale changes to gun laws and make illegal the types of arms / munitions that were used to carry out the attacks? Has it done anything to actually reduce gun violence? Were any of the thousands of guns handed in by licensed gun owners ever previously used "in anger"?

I'd also argue that no male leader could have acted the way she did, embracing the victims and their families. Was it appropriate, absolutely, was it well intentioned, you betcha, BUT, if John Key, Andrew Little or any other male have embraced them, would they now be held up with the same light of "compassion"?

marmel

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#2987846 25-Oct-2022 15:41

Rikkitic:

You are talking about a good manager. A good leader gives people heart in times of crisis. Zelensky is an outstanding example of that. I can't say how Jacinda Ardern would respond in a similar situation, but I was hugely impressed by her daily stand-ups during the pandemic. That takes a lot more effort and preparation than people might realise. Others could have done it but it was important to the country to see their leader there every day providing reassurance and encouragement. That is what a leader does.

A good PM is both a leader and manager, the failures of Labour with her as leader tells me she is not a good manager. For me that's enough to not want her as PM.

An example is the recent announcement about the deficit being $10b less than what was projected, it was sent out as a good news story by the government press team. If you drill down into it though the deficit as it stands per head of population is similar to that of the UK which is widely considered as being in a complete mess economically. So, not a good news story at all. I am a bit concerned that this government really isn't that accountable to taxpayer money it has spent and I'm even more concerned about what/who they might throw money at going into an election year. They gave $3b of taxpayer funds to NZ-1st for a slush fund in exchange for being installed as government, billions more as a 3Water's bribe to councils, where does it end and who pays for it all in the long run? It's fine to stand up at daily press conferences and smile and be reassuring but that doesn't pay the bills, that doesn't lift the economy, that doesn't put more money in kiwi's pockets.

GV27

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#2987851 25-Oct-2022 15:42

quickymart:

I personally think her response to the coronavirus pandemic was excellent - and she did move the whole country along: remember "the team of 5 million"? We had such a low death toll we were the envy of a lot of other countries, particularly Australia and the US.

The Covid response was good for a bit, but then it quickly became an exercise crisis management by communications; e.g. problems were managed by announcing independent inquiries, some of which kept raising the same issues as not being dealt with properly. If you start applying basic scrutiny to pandemic such as 'did they thing they say was happening actually happen' then it starts to look a bit shakey.

We'd know if we were having a proper enquiry. We should be, we financially crippled the country and endured the biggest lost in freedom of mobility at almost no notice. We had a Royal Commission of Enquiry for Pike River, for Erebus, but not for the biggest crisis in the post-WW2 era. I'll let you figure out why that might not have happened.

And if the country is only going to have any sort of rudder at a time of once-in-a-generation crisis at the expense of the basics like fulfilling the policy promises you made around housing, climate and infrastructure, then that's not actually a great trade-off to consciously make. I'd rather live in a country that made progress 364 days a year, instead of just living in a holding pattern until the Govt gets an opportunity to tell us how great they are.

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#2987856 25-Oct-2022 15:44

GV27:

We'd know if we were having a proper enquiry. We should be, we financially crippled the country and endured the biggest lost in freedom of mobility at almost no notice. We had a Royal Commission of Enquiry for Pike River, for Erebus, but not for the biggest crisis in the post-WW2 era. I'll let you figure out why that might not have happened.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/476919/government-signals-covid-19-inquiry-in-the-works

marmel

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#2987859 25-Oct-2022 15:48

quickymart:

GV27:

We'd know if we were having a proper enquiry. We should be, we financially crippled the country and endured the biggest lost in freedom of mobility at almost no notice. We had a Royal Commission of Enquiry for Pike River, for Erebus, but not for the biggest crisis in the post-WW2 era. I'll let you figure out why that might not have happened.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/476919/government-signals-covid-19-inquiry-in-the-works

I have precisely zero confidence the terms of reference for any enquiry the government sets up will be meaningful in any way at all. The only time this government will set up any genuine enquiry is where they believe the previous government can somehow be blamed.

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GV27

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#2987862 25-Oct-2022 15:55

quickymart:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/476919/government-signals-covid-19-inquiry-in-the-works

Is that going be before or after the Mt Roskill Light Rail is completed?

E: Sorry, but "Oh it'll probably happen at some point" kind of isn't good enough? There should be very little need for discussion or debate around this, a Royal Commission is the absolute minimum acceptable level of inquiry. This should actually be a priority as a matter of course. It's not something that should be dragged out past the next election for the sake of political convenience. It's absurd that it's taken this long to even get a vague allusion to the fact it might happen.

Rikkitic

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#2987882 25-Oct-2022 16:28

sen8or:

Mosque attacks?

On one hand, she acted like a rational human being, offered compassion when it was appropriate to do so and was quick to condemn the actions of the attacker. Then using an isolated incident to make wholesale changes to gun laws and make illegal the types of arms / munitions that were used to carry out the attacks? Has it done anything to actually reduce gun violence? Were any of the thousands of guns handed in by licensed gun owners ever previously used "in anger"?

I'd also argue that no male leader could have acted the way she did, embracing the victims and their families. Was it appropriate, absolutely, was it well intentioned, you betcha, BUT, if John Key, Andrew Little or any other male have embraced them, would they now be held up with the same light of "compassion"?

I would not term 50+ murders an 'isolated' incident. I don't care if the guns handed in were used in anger or not. I just know they won't be in the future.

I'm sorry but I think you have very narrow view of maleness. Real men know perfectly well how to give a compassionate hug. It has nothing to do with gender, everything to do with kindness.

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Rikkitic

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#2987884 25-Oct-2022 16:31

marmel:

I have precisely zero confidence the terms of reference for any enquiry the government sets up will be meaningful in any way at all. The only time this government will set up any genuine enquiry is where they believe the previous government can somehow be blamed.

If this is your pre-ordained conclusion, then there is not much point in having a discussion about it.

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marmel

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#2987886 25-Oct-2022 16:34

Rikkitic:

marmel:

I have precisely zero confidence the terms of reference for any enquiry the government sets up will be meaningful in any way at all. The only time this government will set up any genuine enquiry is where they believe the previous government can somehow be blamed.

If this is your pre-ordained conclusion, then there is not much point in having a discussion about it.

It is based on the prior enquiries they have set up, the current one being the Mahuta conflict of interest matter. Conveniently they decided to leave out the one contract that Mahuta could actually be personally linked to, must be a coincidence?

GV27

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#2987957 25-Oct-2022 17:30

Or the 3 Waters 'feedback' review that specifically excluded the thing most people opposed and wanted to feed back on?

You know, the huge local govt asset transfer to central govt where there hadn't been a decision about it being mandatory but they'd already decided it would be?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/457660/three-waters-government-agreed-to-mandated-strategy-before-four-entities-announced

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JPNZ

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#2987970 25-Oct-2022 17:53

quickymart:

A look at whether she would stand down before the end of her term:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/bryce-edwards-the-increasing-speculation-about-jacinda-ardern-quitting/U72FTQFMEJFADALEK5HKF4BXTY/

To answer this point and no I’m not directly talking to quickymart.

As I posted back here in March/April labour chance for winning in 2023 is getting smaller by the day. By the middle of next year we will be well into a recession and the cost of living crises will be even worse than it is currently.

Does Jacinda want to tarnish her career by losing her final election or does she jump before it gets that bad. She’s left it to late to go out on top like JK did but she could still go before Labour bombs into the 20’s.

Guess we will know before Xmas, but either way it’s funny all this talk and news stories all drop in the MSM on the same day.

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PsychoSmiley

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#2987989 25-Oct-2022 19:22

sen8or:

Mosque attacks?

On one hand, she acted like a rational human being, offered compassion when it was appropriate to do so and was quick to condemn the actions of the attacker. Then using an isolated incident to make wholesale changes to gun laws and make illegal the types of arms / munitions that were used to carry out the attacks? Has it done anything to actually reduce gun violence? Were any of the thousands of guns handed in by licensed gun owners ever previously used "in anger"?

As an Australian now here and remembering Port Arthur, no I don't think it was an overreaction the changes to firearms here. I disagreed on a whole lot that John Howard did, but I absolutely wholeheartedly stand by his changes to fire arm laws in AU, as I stand by the same done by Jacinda.

Criminals will always have access to weapons they shouldn't, so laws or not wouldn't make a difference to shootings anyway. However I'd rather disgruntled angry white bloke #35 didn't though.

GV27

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#2988095 25-Oct-2022 20:27

I doubt she'll resign or move on. If you're expecting a 23/12 newsflash then you might be surprised.

She would be wise enough to back her chances at the moment. National can't get cut through on Labour's lazy approach to taxation by stealth and that's their bread and butter. Why would she panic?

sir1963

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#2988236 26-Oct-2022 11:51

And the Universities are on strike again.

Labour has allowed the failure of government agencies, playing on their loyalty to not go on strike.

It is NOT up to employees to suck up the costs of inflation and subsidise the government.

Apart from Covid, I am not sure I can say Labour has got anything right.

Not education

Not housing

Not health

Not roading

Not immigration

Not airport security

No mental health

"Be kind" just does not cut it I am afraid.

Problem is, National are just as incompetent, they may attack Labours weak points, but they are not offering any solutions.

At this stage National are just doing the Miss World "World peace" BS.

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